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Chris Lampe




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 12:02 pm    Post subject: The Albion Lancaster         Reply with quote

I haven't seen this mentioned here and it's not on Albion's website so I thought I would give a heads-up to those who don't follow Albion's Facebook page.

Albion has released "The Lancaster" as a reproduction of a sword type in common usage during the Wars of the Roses. It combines the blade of the Poiters, the guard of the Castellen and the pommel of the Kingmaker.



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David Sutton




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 12:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like they did it again, very nice looking sword! Cool

I already own a Poitiers so I've got Type XV covered in my collection; can I justify getting another! Big Grin

It seems logical that Albion should start mixing and matching blades and appropriate hilt components seeing as they have pretty much all the common guard and pommel forms covered in one form or another. I wonder if this is something we'll see more of in the future?

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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 12:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Sutton wrote:
I wonder if this is something we'll see more of in the future?


I hope so -- when it makes sense. I like the variety and would guess that many such possibilities for effective and correct combinations are available.

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Paul Watson




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 12:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I want to see more of other types though. The XV and/or it's sub types are already numerous in their line up.
I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, but that which it protects. (Faramir, The Two Towers)
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 1:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like it a lot. It looks very 15th century. The Lancastrian Dukes of Somerset - 2nd, 3rd, and 4th (the Wars of the Roses was tough on the Beauforts) - could well have carried a sword that resembled this one.

Last edited by Roger Hooper on Mon 18 Jan, 2010 6:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hadrian Coffin
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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I tend not to be a huge fan of Albion's (I do like many of their swords, and own several, I am just not a "super fan") but I would love it if they made a "custom" option. It would be wonderful, even if they charged a bit more, to let the customer pick between hilt components and blades. There are many combinations that would create lovely new swords.
Cheers,
Hadrian

Historia magistra vitae est
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 2:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hadrian Coffin wrote:
I tend not to be a huge fan of Albion's (I do like many of their swords, and own several, I am just not a "super fan") but I would love it if they made a "custom" option. It would be wonderful, even if they charged a bit more, to let the customer pick between hilt components and blades. There are many combinations that would create lovely new swords.
Cheers,
Hadrian


That would be great. They should have the privilege to say "No" to something they think would not be historical or would be less successful practically but it would be great if you could mix some fittings like you can at A&A.
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P. Cha




PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 3:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would love to get a crecy with the agincourt cross and pommel...so yeah Im a fan of the idea of an albion custom shop option Happy .
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B. Stark
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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 3:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hadrian Coffin wrote:
I tend not to be a huge fan of Albion's (I do like many of their swords, and own several, I am just not a "super fan") but I would love it if they made a "custom" option. It would be wonderful, even if they charged a bit more, to let the customer pick between hilt components and blades. There are many combinations that would create lovely new swords.
Cheers,
Hadrian


Here's the problem with that notion...the pommels and guards would not necessarily compliment the functional dynamics of the blade in question. It's not like putting different tires on car or truck X. The performance of each blade has to be matched with the appropriate mass of the pommel/guard combination. Otherwise the performance of the blade would likely suffer...very rarely would I think that it would profit.

The only way that this so called 'custom' option would work is if each pommel and guard could be customised to accomodate a reasonable dynamic quality for the blade in question. From a production standpoint it would be out of the question...obviously something the customer rarely takes into consideration. I think that is the reason there are so many XV versions that a mixed around is that they are a relatively simplistic crossection that lends itself to minor manipuations of pommel weight without drastically changing it's performance.

Then again maybe I'm completely off my rocker and don't have clue what I'm saying. Big Grin

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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 4:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

B. Stark wrote:


Then again maybe I'm completely off my rocker and don't have clue what I'm saying. Big Grin


I don't think you're off your rocker.

Switching pommels in particular is risky and will likely throw off the harmonic balance. When Albion has done this, it has surely been precisely calculated.

I don't think anyone would ask for this, but a request to put the Reeve's pommel on the Regent, or vise versa will be rejected on anachronisitic grounds
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 5:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like that, in fact I like that quite a bit. I find it far more visually interesting than the Poitiers.

It would be nice to see more of this kind of thing from Albion, and I hope they do more of it. However, I can see the downside of allowing a customer to choose their own components. Anything that adds more variation also means more time in the shop, which translates to less product moving out the door. Only Albion can decide if the pros outweigh the cons on that issue. Still, more choices are never a bad thing in any industry.

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus


Last edited by Patrick Kelly on Sun 17 Jan, 2010 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hadrian Coffin
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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 6:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

B. Stark,
I understand what you are saying, I should have clarified. I was figuring the customer could decide what to mix, and Albion could veto anything that wouldn't work or wasn't historical.
Alternately it could be at the customers own risk, and choice. There are many customers who wouldn't care if it was historical or if it handled as it should. Albion could mark the swords differently so people would know it was a custom idea; not necessarily historical in look or feel, and not necessarily condoned by Albion.
Cheers

Historia magistra vitae est
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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 7:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

B. Stark wrote:
Then again maybe I'm completely off my rocker and don't have clue what I'm saying. Big Grin


Actually, you hit the nail on the head. Wink

"In valor there is hope.".................. Tacitus
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P. Cha




PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan, 2010 11:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well B. Stark, your quite right...and for this to work, albion would have to be sure the fitting actually work. Even changing the handle can change a sword quite significantly and throw balance and harmonics out of whack...much less the pommel and cross guard. I had a hell of a time getting my hanwei tinker bastard sword in line when I switched the very bad handle for wenge.
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jan, 2010 1:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey guys,

Really glad you find the Lancaster interesting. I think there will be an official introduction any time now, so Ill wait making any further comments on the sword itself at the moment.

Regarding the mix and match of hilt furniture and blades, it is something that has been requested several times over the years.
There are some good reasons why this is not offered as a standard thing.
The first one has already been mentioned: not all pommels can go with all blades. There pommels need to be able to accommodate the tangs as well as leave enough space for the fitting of the grips. Sometimes the tolerances are pretty small if it is all to come together nicely.
Then there is the obvious thing with effects on heft/balance. Most blades have quite a margin where the weight of the pommel can be varied, but this often involves adjusting the grip length as well.
Apart from the actual weight of the pommel, its actual size may disqualify it. It may look too big or to small together with a certain blade and guard. Visual proportion is an important aspect of the design.

The goal with the swords I design for Albion is that they shall be faithful to cultural and historical styles. Personal taste is one thing and that is all fine in itself for other kind or projects. The mission of the NG line is to offer swords that fit a time and place in history. You do see a lot of variations and combinations in the historical material, but not *every* combination.
Allowing some customers to combine their favorite sword, but not others (that request a less than ideal combination) is a sticky situation. It is bound to result in customers feeling let down and refused on what they feel are irrelevant and vague grounds. It would also probably mean I would have to sit in with each such customer request, suggesting alternatives and explaining why a certain combination may look cool, but still might not be the best combination for a specific blade.
I design these swords to meet a certain level in style, feel and integrity. The components are carved for specific blades and all tangs are different is dimension. All grip cores are made to fit a specific blade and a specific hilt for that blade. All are different and made by hand to fit.

Saying all this (and I know it will come across as mean and nit picking: that is part of my job after all! :-) there are pommels, guards and blades that can yet meet in happy marriage. There are possible combinations that are still to be made. We shall keep working through various combinations and see what may be offered as unique new products, but never by compromising the quality of the sword or the identity of the product line.
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T Lui




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jan, 2010 2:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very nice lines and sense of balance visually with the Lancaster. It reminds me a bit of the Kingmaker's little brother, another sword used during the War of the Roses, but that's probably just due to the pommel and the fact it's an elegant single-handed sword as well.

I too was wondering what Albion's policy was regarding mixing and matching parts and blades but always assumed it was because it's "not historically accurate and/or functional." Glad to see Albion try something new with something old. Big Grin

I'll admit to being somewhat partial to the Crecy's blade and guard combined with the Castellan's grip and pommel, however inaccurate and unwieldy it might be.
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jan, 2010 3:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

T Lui wrote:
Very nice lines and sense of balance visually with the Lancaster. It reminds me a bit of the Kingmaker's little brother, another sword used during the War of the Roses, but that's probably just due to the pommel and the fact it's an elegant single-handed sword as well.

I too was wondering what Albion's policy was regarding mixing and matching parts and blades but always assumed it was because it's "not historically accurate and/or functional." Glad to see Albion try something new with something old. Big Grin

I'll admit to being somewhat partial to the Crecy's blade and guard combined with the Castellan's grip and pommel, however inaccurate and unwieldy it might be.


This is a good example of what I was trying to express above!

The Crecy blade could possibly be fitted with such a guard and pommel, but the castellan hilt furniture would not fit in size. In style, yes possibly but not the existing parts. I would have to carve new ones, and then Id rather make a new version of the pommel and guard rather than making two new ones that are simply scaled up.
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jan, 2010 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice sword as always from Albion.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Mon 18 Jan, 2010 1:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Peter,

One thing that I find is that I often have a desire for swords with hilt components that are appropriate (i.e. historical) for a particular blade type but which is currently not available in the Next Gen line. I suspect that a lot of people who want to customize Next Gen pieces aren't looking to create "fantasy" hilt furniture configurations, but rather want historical examples that do not presently exist.
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Mon 18 Jan, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig Peters wrote:
Peter,

One thing that I find is that I often have a desire for swords with hilt components that are appropriate (i.e. historical) for a particular blade type but which is currently not available in the Next Gen line. I suspect that a lot of people who want to customize Next Gen pieces aren't looking to create "fantasy" hilt furniture configurations, but rather want historical examples that do not presently exist.


I agree. For instance, I would love to take the Lancaster configuration, and replace the pommel with a type V2. That makes it look a lot like Oakeshott XV.2 in Records Of course, that's a much more complex operation than using an already existing Albion pommel. It would only make sense as a new production model, not a custom item.
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