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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Jan, 2010 11:05 am    Post subject: "Sir Baldwin" A Modified Oakeshott Type XVI.4         Reply with quote

Sir Baldwin Project is:

Oakeshott Type XVI.4 from "Records of the Medieval Sword"
Blade lengthened to 25"
Heat blued blade of a vibrant "peacock" blue color
Engraved within the fuller on one side - "BOAC" on the other side a Templar Cross
Hilt cross Oakeshotte Style 6 (steel, not blued)


A little background http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=140206 and http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=140352


Here is what I came up with so far.


The handle is Wenge.


The peen-block is actually a custom threaded nut allowing this piece to fully breakdown for cleaning.





Keep track of the project here http://baltimoreknife.com/sirbaldwin.htm

Matthew Stagmer
Maker of custom and production weaponry
www.BaltimoreKnife.com


Last edited by Matthew Stagmer on Wed 06 Jan, 2010 4:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tim Seaton




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Jan, 2010 12:12 pm    Post subject: kool         Reply with quote

matt well done!!!!!! u gentalmen at bks are always uping the bar on combat swords Cool iv been useing ur hand in halfs for 5 years now never had any trouble ,and always held up when u needed them most . again ur craftsmenship is amazing cant wait to see what u gentalmen are doing with my custum viking sword Cool
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Scott Kowalski




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PostPosted: Fri 01 Jan, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That looks really nice Matt. If I may ask, what kind of steel did you use for the blade? I am also curious as to what grit paper did you use when finishing the blade? It looks really nice and has a wicked shine to it.

Scott

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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Fri 01 Jan, 2010 3:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

We used 4140 on this piece. Although, the temp that we have to bake the blade at to reach the desired blue well temper some of the hardness out. I polished it on a A6 Trizact Belt. That would be about a 2500 grit. I figured it would show a more vibrant blue if polished highly.
Matthew Stagmer
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Adam Smith





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PostPosted: Sun 03 Jan, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This sword has a very machined and fabricated look about it and 4140 is not only historically inaccurate but I have heard that its not a good sword steel. No offence, but the hilt has a finish on it that looks very similar to some modern door handles or lighting fixtures and the blade is way to bright ( looks like cookware ).
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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Sun 03 Jan, 2010 7:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am sorry that you feel that way Adam. As explained above, the blade was polished this high to show the vibrant peacock blue color after baking. I also do not believe that the blade material is inadequate. Esp for a job where the outcome is purely to get it to look right and not for use. The fittings were polished and then brushed back to a satin finish as request of the customer.

Everyone is allowed their opinion, but in a custom ordered piece like this all I can hope for is making it what the customer wants and try to keep it within the budgeted price range.

I guess if the only bad thing that you can say is that I did too good of job polishing it, I cant be too upset. As for the machine made look...dont know what to say there. It was hand fabricated. This was a small budget project...not my fault if I couldnt afford to hand forge every piece and smelt my steel. I would have loved to do that and we have certainly made our own blade steel before, but like I said...small budget.

I would be happy to show the blade and fittings in other finishes before the project is over. This is still early on in this project. I have a feeling that things will get re-worked alittle. These pictures are of the piece right after I got the handle fit for the first time. I was happy about it so far, so I took some pictures.

Matthew Stagmer
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www.BaltimoreKnife.com
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Andrew Davis




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PostPosted: Sun 03 Jan, 2010 11:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matt, I think this is an absolutely beautiful execution of a historical piece!
Clean crisp lines, perfect proportions, and overall stunning craftsmanship.

I for one love it.
Keep at the incredible work man!

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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan, 2010 5:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Andy. A lot of little things went into this piece to make it what it is. Like the threaded peen block to give a full break down construction without a common nut on the end. I can't wait to get this one blued and enraved.
Matthew Stagmer
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www.BaltimoreKnife.com
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan, 2010 6:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew I think that this is very good work but how one reacts to it depends on one's expectations:

1) Is one is making a " using " piece.
2) Is one is making a piece with imperfections matching the period level of finish and the lack of concern about perfect symmetry and perfect grind lie to duplicate period aesthetics, materials and finish as closely as possible either as newly made or aged to various degrees period reproduction.
3) Is one is making a display piece " theoretically " usable but maybe not optimized for maximum resistance to damage i.e. good materials but not the best if the priority was actual combat.
4) One is making a compromise cherry picking from the above or other priorities I haven't thought of.

Personally I like using the best materials, I prefer the more brushed finishes to mirror polish but I prefer modern aesthetics in having geometrically perfect lines: Not lumpy pommels, wavy fullers or uneven guard quillons etc ... So, even if very historically correct I still want a modern made sword.

So Adams comments are fair enough if he was " the customer " and his personal likes and dislikes would be the criteria used to judge the piece, but the comments did seem a bit " blunter " than necessary and could have been said as a question about what the design goal was in the making of this piece. ( In part this may just be one of the times that the same thing said face to face could be much less blunt and nuanced by tone of voice and a smile Wink ).

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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan, 2010 6:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well said Jean. I couldn't agree more. I am no rookie in dealing with hard opinions either. To each his own.

On our pattern welded or forged swords we often come up with something closer to an antique. Bevels are not just right and the forged fuller may wonder a bit just like you say. I deal on both ends of the spectrum. This was a budget project and I think we even exceeded the budgeted price a bit at no extra cost to the buyer. I guess I will have to do a similar piece in the near future made by hand with hammer Wink but this one had to have some modern tools used in order to keep the cost down.

I also may have worded one of my posts wrong above. The blade will still be a user. Even after it is blued. It just wont be the best that it could be with the tempering. Also the heat-blue won't be real deep and it could scratch under heavy cutting.

Matthew Stagmer
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www.BaltimoreKnife.com
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan, 2010 7:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Matthew Stagmer wrote:

I also may have worded one of my posts wrong above. The blade will still be a user. Even after it is blued. It just wont be the best that it could be with the tempering. Also the heat-blue won't be real deep and it could scratch under heavy cutting.


This why I say " theoretically " usable since one doesn't really want to damage a super nicely finished or decorated sword, but for it to be " real " it's good if it could perform as a real sword otherwise might as well make them of aluminium or plastic or painted wood. Wink

So when making real swords one wants ( or at least I do ) to make them as materially good as they can be !

Oh, this can also be split into:

1) The best possible materials, finish, heat treat etc .... but duplicating period limitations i.e. not making them better than they could in period as far as materials are concerned. ( handling etc ... it would be difficult to exceed what period masters knew how to make the best handling swords possible ).
2) Using the best modern steels using the best quality control for uniform mechanical qualities and even searching for even better " unobtanium " to make swords better than anything possible in period.

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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan, 2010 7:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Once again I agree with you. There are certainly times when it is proper to use period correct materials for the construction of a historical piece. However, with current materials and more elaborate methods of heat-treating, it would be silly not to make the best performing blade that one could. Performance for me depends on the job that sword is meant to do. We use tougher steels that are meant to take daily steel on steel abuse and never break for our stage combat weapons. For our cutting swords we like to use something a bit harder that holds a better cutting edge. In both cases we only use materials that we have worked with for years and have figured out the best methods of HT and forming. As everything we make, we have to stand behind our work as we guarantee everything for life. Modern materials and methods certainly play a huge roll in us being able to do that.
Matthew Stagmer
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Ed T.




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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan, 2010 8:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As the customer who commissioned this piece, allow me to weigh in.

So far Baltimore Knife and Sword have exceeded my expectations on this project. I say "so far" because the sword is not finished yet. The goal of this project was to recreate a fictitious sword that features prominently in the Michael Jecks mystery series of 29 novels featuring the ex-Templar Sir Baldwin de Furnshill. With input from the author I commissioned the sword based on Oakeshott's Type XVI.4 from "Records of the Medieval Sword". The most striking design element of this sword is its heat blued blade which, according to the author, gave the blade a "peacock blue" color. Also unique to this sword are engravings within the fullers on both side of the blade.

As you see it now I think it represents a plausible re-creation of a 14th century knightly riding sword. Once blued and engraved the sword goes beyond historical interpretation and enters the realm of story telling and imagination. For me Sir Baldwin and his sword represent both fantasy and reality. I anticipate the sword, made by hand by the Stagmer Brothers, will be a treasured addition to my collection of things medieval.

Ed T.
Cockeysville, Maryland, USA
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Chris Lampe




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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like it!!

I'm a huge fan of shorter swords and over time I've grown to prefer personalized custom work so this is right up my alley. The blade proportions are very pleasing and I look forward to seeing the final product.
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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan, 2010 4:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nice little sword there. Well done Matt. The blade doesn't really look that blue to me though....is it more blueish in person or is the blue very subtle?

Edit-Ooops, it hasn't been blued yet. My bad, Carry on.
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Adam Smith





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PostPosted: Mon 04 Jan, 2010 4:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mathew Stagmer,

My opinion was short winded and I am impressed that you were not offended, with out doudt you are a professional. Your work in this piece is very good, the fact that the finish is not to my perticular taste should not of been a factor in my comment.
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Matthew Stagmer
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jan, 2010 4:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I decided to make another cross guard that was closer to the true Type XVI.4 just for fun. I took some pictures just to show you all. I gave the cross a antiqued finish. I noticed that I made the length of the guard just a tad short, but it does the job just fine.





Here is the original picture that I was given to work from.



For some reason I had a lot of trouble getting decent pictures of this. I will take some better shots in the morning. We are going to blue the blade during the day.

Like I said this guard isn't perfect. I did it for fun and didn't spend a lot of time on it, but I like the way it looks and I could make a better one quite fast now.

Matthew Stagmer
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www.BaltimoreKnife.com
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Michael Eging




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PostPosted: Wed 06 Jan, 2010 5:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The whole piece works better for me! I like the revised cross-guard much more. The first one didn't make the whole piece mesh for me.

Very nice!

Cool

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Bruno Giordan




PostPosted: Thu 07 Jan, 2010 2:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Congratulations, a very good approach I like the second cross.
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Jan, 2010 2:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like the new guard quite a bit more, too. In fact, I like it better than the antique that inspired it.
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