Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Best Maille/Chainmail Reply to topic
This is a standard topic Go to page 1, 2  Next 
Author Message
Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
Joined: 07 Oct 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Best Maille/Chainmail         Reply with quote

Hi y'all,
I was wondering who makes the best most accurate chainmail. If price were no issue, where would you get chainmail? I want it for late viking era. The best I can find is Erik Schmid but I have heard, on this site and a few others, various things that make me not want to do business with him. Are there any other high end chainmail makers out there?
Thnx
Z
View user's profile Send private message
Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Reading list: 17 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 671

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have been looking at mail for the last few days. One maker I come across a lot is Ulfberth from Germany. They have some really nice looking mail from flattened, wedge riveted rings. You can't buy there directly but you cat get it from Get Dressed For Battle and Battle Merchant, among others.

It looks gorgeous but a haubergon is well over 900 US$, ex shipping. And from a few quick calculations on the back of a napkin, buying the loose flattened rings with rivets and making it yourself isn't much cheaper. They even have a more expensive version with 6mm rings instead of 8mm. For those, haubergons are over 1200 US$.

You'd have to ask the expert here how historically accurate they really are, but to my limited knowledge they are very accurate.

PS: Does anyone know why loose rings of flat, wedge riveted mail is much more expensive than the same flattened rings with dome head rivets?
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Boris Bedrosov
Industry Professional



Location: Bourgas, Bulgaria
Joined: 06 Nov 2005

Posts: 700

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 1:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi, Zach!

I will recommend Battle-Merchant and their Ulfberth mail too:

http://battlemerchant.com/

The price really is a issue, but the quality is good too.

"Everyone who has the right to wear a long sword, has to remember that his sword is his soul,
and he has to separate from it when he separates from his life"
Tokugawa Ieyasu

Find my works on Facebook:
Boris Bedrosov's Armoury
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
Joined: 07 Oct 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 1:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,
Yeah i've seen that stuff, aren't there any like custom makers or people making it with bloomery iron? The Battle Merchant stuff looks like the same flat ring indian made stuff you see everywhere. I was hoping for something better, but if that's the best there is...
Thnx for your help though,
Z Happy
View user's profile Send private message
Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Reading list: 17 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 671

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 2:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Zach Gordon wrote:
The Battle Merchant stuff looks like the same flat ring indian made stuff you see everywhere.


Pay no attention the man in the hauberk :-) They use that same picture everywhere, from their cheap butted mail to the really expensive wedge riveted mail. If you look at the detail picture of the mail with the euro coin on it, you can see that it is very, very different from flattened, butted indian mail.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Chris Gilman




Location: California
Joined: 07 Dec 2007

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 4:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sander Marechal wrote:
Zach Gordon wrote:
The Battle Merchant stuff looks like the same flat ring indian made stuff you see everywhere.


Pay no attention the man in the hauberk :-) They use that same picture everywhere, from their cheap butted mail to the really expensive wedge riveted mail. If you look at the detail picture of the mail with the euro coin on it, you can see that it is very, very different from flattened, butted indian mail.

I don't think Zach was reffering to butted mail. The closeup does look just like most of the Indian made, wedge riveted mail. Deepeeka has a wide range of this material. Von Sussen in Ct. sells all of their line at pretty good prices. He iused to sell on ebay but I can't find his store.

Chris
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Reading list: 17 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 671

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
I don't think Zach was reffering to butted mail. The closeup does look just like most of the Indian made, wedge riveted mail. Deepeeka has a wide range of this material.


Interesting. Got any links? I looked at Deepeeka before but all I found was flattened, butted (and zinc coated) mail which looked far too shiny and round rings riveted with round rivets (also too shiny). And it wasn't cheap ($700 for a haubergon).

If there is cheap, wedge riveted mail out there that looks like the expensive Ulfberth mail then I'm all ears :-)
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 4:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

eric schmid
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Felix R.




Location: Germany
Joined: 08 Oct 2006
Reading list: 25 books

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 555

PostPosted: Wed 16 Dec, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wasn´t there a Spanish maker Michael Edelson got the patch for his sword cutting tests from?

That looked much better than most other stuff. What was said about the other seems true, just all the same Indian stuff. But indeed you now get some with less zinc coating. But to me Ulfbert doesn´t look diffferent from the other stuff. Co-Trainees just bought maile frome here http://shop.strato.de/epages/245791.sf/de_DE/...egories/KE Looks like Ulfbert too, but is a little bit cheaper.

But still, this is far from the most authentic maile that was asked for.

EDIT: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=11131

Just have a look at the original entry by Michael.
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,192

PostPosted: Thu 17 Dec, 2009 12:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you want functional riveted mail then there are a few options. Julio Junco makes good quality riveted mail that falls in this category. However he doesn't attempt to replicate any particular historical style of mail. There are a few researchers who attempt to copy museum pieces but Erik D Schmid is the only person I know of who does it commercially.
View user's profile Send private message
Chris Gilman




Location: California
Joined: 07 Dec 2007

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Thu 17 Dec, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sander Marechal wrote:
Quote:
I don't think Zach was reffering to butted mail. The closeup does look just like most of the Indian made, wedge riveted mail. Deepeeka has a wide range of this material.


Interesting. Got any links? I looked at Deepeeka before but all I found was flattened, butted (and zinc coated) mail which looked far too shiny and round rings riveted with round rivets (also too shiny). And it wasn't cheap ($700 for a haubergon).

If there is cheap, wedge riveted mail out there that looks like the expensive Ulfberth mail then I'm all ears :-)

Well I guess that's a problem, your deffinition of cheap. $700 bucks for an all hand riveted shirt compared with Erik D Schmid at (guess) $20,000+ or any person making a shirt of this type for that matter. My wholesale cost is $600 when I buy a number of them. Deepeeka's web site is not very good, but they do have the same type of mail. You will have to find one of their retailers though.

Chris
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Sander Marechal




Location: The Netherlands
Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Reading list: 17 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 671

PostPosted: Thu 17 Dec, 2009 1:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

US$ 20,000 for a mail shirt? Anyone got pictures? Eric's website seems to be down at the moment and my google-fu isn't uncovering many pictures. I really wonder what the difference between 1K and 20K looks like.
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Boris R.





Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Likes: 1 page

Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu 17 Dec, 2009 9:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sander Marechal wrote:
US$ 20,000 for a mail shirt? Anyone got pictures? Eric's website seems to be down at the moment and my google-fu isn't uncovering many pictures. I really wonder what the difference between 1K and 20K looks like.


i bet the 20K chainmail is made out of pure Mithril Silver. Big Grin

Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.
View user's profile Send private message
Chris Gilman




Location: California
Joined: 07 Dec 2007

Posts: 74

PostPosted: Fri 18 Dec, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

No, a mail shirt for 20k is made at a US economy rate all by hand one link at a time out of the correct material which also is most likely made by hand. Now I am taking a guess at Eric's price based on the per link price I was told many years ago. But for the amount of work involved, 20k is cheap. We are extremely spoiled by cheap, overseas mass produced goods and most people have no idea what custom made, one off, quality goods cost.
Chris
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Allan Senefelder
Industry Professional



Location: Upstate NY
Joined: 18 Oct 2003

Posts: 1,563

PostPosted: Fri 18 Dec, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
We are extremely spoiled by cheap, overseas mass produced goods and most people have no idea what custom made, one off, quality goods cost.


Word.
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Fri 18 Dec, 2009 7:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i do believe it is correctly made from drawn iron and not just some steel
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Julio Junco





Joined: 08 Jan 2006

Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat 19 Dec, 2009 8:46 am    Post subject: mail         Reply with quote

Dan Howard wrote:
"If you want functional riveted mail then there are a few options. Julio Junco makes good quality riveted mail that falls in this category. However he doesn't attempt to replicate any particular historical style of mail"

Well. it is true but I make 10-12 different rings, with various internal and external diameters,wire gauges, flat and round section, wedge and round rivet,... so it would be easy to make some specific mail.
Really I don´t make mail since one year ago ( a lot of daily work Sad ) but the last mail I had made was round section and "roun section solid ring"..The viking mail was round rivet and these rings were wedge rivet but It can be changed easily .
With that mail I was looking round surface in the back of the overlap like the historic mail and I think I got it. I´ll try to put photos with this message.
How nice speak about mail again!
Regards
Julio



 Attachment: 51.55 KB
Up and washers.jpg


 Attachment: 31.84 KB
Back round rings.JPG

View user's profile Send private message
Bjorn Hagstrom




Location: Höör, Skane
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 327

PostPosted: Sat 19 Dec, 2009 9:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Julio Junco wrote:
Dan Howard wrote:
"If you want functional riveted mail then there are a few options. Julio Junco makes good quality riveted mail that falls in this category. However he doesn't attempt to replicate any particular historical style of mail"

Well. it is true but I make 10-12 different rings, with various internal and external diameters,wire gauges, flat and round section, wedge and round rivet,... so it would be easy to make some specific mail.
Really I don´t make mail since one year ago ( a lot of daily work Sad ) but the last mail I had made was round section and "roun section solid ring"..The viking mail was round rivet and these rings were wedge rivet but It can be changed easily .
With that mail I was looking round surface in the back of the overlap like the historic mail and I think I got it. I´ll try to put photos with this message.
How nice speak about mail again!
Regards
Julio


That is really nice mail! Are the solid rings punched out of iron plate? And if punched, are they punched in two separete steps (solid disc, then center out) or can one die be used to punch the ring in one go?

There is nothing quite as sad as a one man conga-line...
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Julio Junco





Joined: 08 Jan 2006

Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 10:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Bjorn.
The solid rings are punched but from usual washers. It is very cheap and I got two solid rings every wash.
I don´t sell mail. I put the photos because the mail was similar like Zach was looking.
Regards
Julio
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Howard




Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia
Joined: 08 Dec 2004

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 3,192

PostPosted: Sun 20 Dec, 2009 9:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Julio. Like I said your mail is very good. But good is not the same as a museum replica. Which extant sample have you tried to replicate? Do you have photos of an original museum piece compared to your reconstruction?

It depends on what the mail is for.

If I just wanted a riveted haubergeon for fighting then the Indian mail would be fine
If I wanted mail that looked and functioned a lot like historical mail then I'd ask you and a few others for a quote
If I wanted a copy of the Wallace A9 then I'd ask Erik.
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Best Maille/Chainmail
Page 1 of 2 Reply to topic
Go to page 1, 2  Next All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum