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Billy S





Joined: 24 Nov 2009

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue 24 Nov, 2009 3:30 am    Post subject: Kolpak domed helmets?         Reply with quote

Hi guys, so I got busy one day and somehow made a 2mm kolpak dome(looks like a cone on a cylinder) for a reenactment helm. For the life of me I just can't turn up much information on their use in helmets.
As far as I can determine, kolpak domes were only additionally addorned with rims, aventails, and sometimes steel face masks. I'd feel much safer with a nasal and supporting plates, however such a piece doesn't seem likely to have come together.
So anyway, where abouts were these domes used, what timeframe were they in, and how they were used in helmets is what I would like to know. Also, what are the chances of such a helmt being looted by a western fighter and modified? I'm leaning to western european gear so this is a question I've been struggling to answer for a while now.

I hope you can figure out my rambling, but I guess what I'm asking is for any information or personal thoughts on the kolpak style. Its very solid and reliable, mostly due to its obscure shape and build, and I don't really have the option of getting another dome at the moment(being a student). I'd very much appreciate any help or thoughts on this matter. I may post pictures if I can find a camera.

Cheers
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Darryl Aoki





Joined: 12 Oct 2006

Posts: 93

PostPosted: Tue 24 Nov, 2009 8:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The kolpak's a Russian helmet, and I think the word's also used for some other bit of Russian garb. I've got a couple of Osprey books on medieval Russian armies, and I'll see what they've got in them when I get home. (I've also got something on the RKKA during the Great Patriotic War which I vaguely recall mentioning kolpaks, so I'll see what context the term's used in there, if only to satisfy my perverse curiosity.)

As far as your other question goes, most, if not all, of the (European) invasions of Russia during the period in question were conducted by Germans, Poles, or some of the other Baltic powers, so it'd not be unreasonable to adapt a kolpak for the kit of a man-at-arms from any of those states. It'd probably be less likely to show up in, say, France. This is, of course, not to say that you can't take your kolpak and use it for, say, a French kit, because, well, folks do travel (well, some folks, in the time), and people will tend to buy things that look unusual, or at least different.
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
Joined: 26 Oct 2006

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Tue 24 Nov, 2009 10:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

As far as I know, the kolpak helmet is a form of relatively cheap helmet for the lower ranks. I have never saw a kolpak with a nasal or with side plates (cheek plates) of any kind. It depends how accurate you want it to be. For protection, you could have a frame of steel bars hidden under an integral maille aventail. It is not period accurate but it will not be strikingly visible.
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Billy S





Joined: 24 Nov 2009

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009 3:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Darryl and Romulus, your comments so far have given me something to think about. Thats a good idea about hidden rods, I should talk to the SCA about that.
So the poles, germans and baltic powers are the most likely culprits eh? That's handy to know, I've had problems researching that as lands change, groups are lumped together under modern nations, etc, so the terms like 'medieval russian' don't mean much. I'm guessing the start for my research should be medieval germany, they seem to have a hand in everything(yeah I know that's a stupid sentence).
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
Joined: 26 Oct 2006

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009 6:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This link could be helpfull:
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~chrisandpeter/...#24_lykovo
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Lukasz Papaj




Location: Malbork, Poland
Joined: 09 Mar 2009

Posts: 59

PostPosted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From what i know "kolpak"/"kołpak" is general term for kind of fur hat ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalpak
What you're looking for seems to rather be prussian/baltic "Pekilhube" -> scroll through this page for pictures : http://www.freha.pl/index.php?showtopic=6536&hl=pikelhaub
Used in XIV/XV c.
Edit:
As for masks and such helmets i'd reccomend searching forums for works of Mr. Patryk Nieczarowski
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Billy S





Joined: 24 Nov 2009

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Sun 29 Nov, 2009 11:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi, I haven't been on for a while as all my free time has gone on making a mail aventail. 2mm thick, 8mm inner diameter, galvanised(eww I know but it rubs off) wire, I now have quite the grip from the low tech creation method.

Wow those are some nice finds, plenty of inspiration there. And Mr. Nieczarowski has some amazing work, I think I'm going to create a steel mask myself.

Anyway, I have another question now.
For the aventail I have some plates that I plan to sew into the chain. So, would it be historcally accurate to sew them over the mail or would they be almost exclusively sewn into the mail as replacement? Regardless, for my throat guard I'm sewing the plates over the chain, I hate throat stabbings.
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Mon 30 Nov, 2009 1:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To tell the truth I have never seen a mix of mail and plates in aventail.
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Ivan Cac




Location: Croatia
Joined: 28 Jul 2009

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon 30 Nov, 2009 9:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Artis Aboltins wrote:
To tell the truth I have never seen a mix of mail and plates in aventail.



Here are a few examples and my favorite page when I want to look at some oriental armour.

http://velizariy.kiev.ua/avallon/cuirass/kpd/gallery/gallery.htm

(some images don't work on the page itself but can be viewed by clicking on the link above each set of images)



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Ivan
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Mon 30 Nov, 2009 10:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ivan Cac wrote:
Artis Aboltins wrote:
To tell the truth I have never seen a mix of mail and plates in aventail.



Here are a few examples and my favorite page when I want to look at some oriental armour.


Should have clarified - meant western european armour in my message, Very nice pictures though.
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Romulus Stoica




Location: Hunedoara, Transylvania, Romania
Joined: 26 Oct 2006

Posts: 124

PostPosted: Wed 02 Dec, 2009 10:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a picture from a russian site where you can see a Kolpak style helmet with maille aventail near a Chicak style helmet with maille aventail:

The text translation is :
Fig. 367-368. Kolpak. Chichak.
The site (in russian language) address is : http://www.tintaghel.org/arms/gl16.html
sadly my knowledge of russian language is less than scarce. I just know the alphabet and a few words. Not enough ... But maybe there are russian members on this forum that can help you more than I can.
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