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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2009 4:11 pm    Post subject: Affordable pattern welded blades         Reply with quote

Hello! I'm looking for a place where I could buy an affordable pattern welded blade for which I won't have to wait a year or more or sell a kidney. I can get a decent hilt made locally but not a decent pattern welded blade.

P.S. Please don't recommend me to buy a Hanwei Godfred, I had it and was not happy with its durability. If nothing better can be had for a comparable price, I can live with that, but I would like to know if there is an alternative.

Thanks, Luka.

Edit: I forgot to say that european maker would be preferable because of the shipping price.
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R D Moore




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PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2009 6:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could send Michael Pikula an email from his website at:
http://volundforge.com/
And while you're there you could look at the pattern welded seax he made. Shipping to you shouldn't be too bad, I paid 50 euros for a sword and dagger from Vladimir Cervenka in the Czech Republic just two months ago.

If you really prefer a European maker, you may want to contact Grzegorz Kulig at Thorkil:
thorkil.armourer@gmail.com
His waiting list is 3 years as of last month (for Vendel period helms), but he may have something for you or could direct you elsewhere.

"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation" ...Gen. Douglas Macarthur
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Hadrian Coffin
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PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2009 7:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,
What price is considered affordable? A pattern welded blade is not in the realm of what most people consider affordable for a sword. For a blade without fittings you will probably have to pay around 900-1000 euro at the cheapest, but it will also depend upon the type of pattern you want, and the quality of the blade.

ArmArt has pattern welded swords for sale at 970 euro so the blades may be cheaper, I have contacted them before and never gotten responses. http://www.armart.antiquanova.com/Viking_pattern_welded.htm

Paul Binns, in the UK, does nice pattern welded blades as well but he has a year long waiting list and his blades are about 1400 euro http://www.paul-binns-swords.co.uk/Collectors_Swords.html

JT Palikko, in Finland has some very nice pattern welded swords he has a waiting list. I do not know if he would sell just a blade, his swords are about 3000 euro http://www.kp-art.fi/jt/index_eng.html

Cheers,
Hadrian

Historia magistra vitae est
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David Huggins




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2009 12:23 am    Post subject: affordable pattern welded sword         Reply with quote

Hi Luka

Besides the above recomendations, I would add Tim Noyes of Heron Armoury, but not sure of present prices or waiting time. I was at a re-enactors market at the weekend ,and did see avery nice late viking age pattern welded sword with some very nice inlayed hilt garniture offered by Todd of www.todsstuff.co.uk at 900 GB Pounds, which I thought was a comparative bargain. Might be worth contacting him...

best
Dave

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Antonio Lamadrid





Joined: 17 Apr 2008

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PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2009 12:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Two more where you could ask:
http://www.owenbush.co.uk/
http://www.castlekeep.co.uk/main.php

Rob Miller's waiting list was 12 months half a year ago. I do not know if he would sell only a blade.
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Martin Erben




Location: Germany, Düsseldorf
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2009 6:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Luka

I would try at Markus Balbach in Germany. His waiting time is relatively short, and he makes beautiful and durable blades and blade-blanks on request. Just try to contact him in English, it won't be a problem.
I know he is nearly unknown in the USA, but in Germany, he is really popular.
The Link to his site: http://www.schmiede-balbach.de
Here's a picture of one of his blades:



 Attachment: 21.79 KB
muster.jpg

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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2009 8:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you all. I sent a few emails to see what price quotes I will get. If anybody knows for an almost unknown smith who he has a wish to try himself in patternwelding or already has some experience but he wasn't making businesss of it don't be afraid to pass the email or something. Happy I'm willing to take a chance with someone less experienced if the price would be right. Wink Price is quite an issue for me. I might save long and get from one of the mentioned smiths but I still hope something more affordable will pop out. I think my family would kill me if I paid 1000 euros for a sword.
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Lee O'Hagan




Location: Northamptonshire,England
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2009 12:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You could always just buy a patternwelded billett from a maker and have it forged or ground and heat treated nearer to home,
i can reccomend Al Massey,great guy,awsome pattern welded steel,great prices,very under appreciated,jmo.
Rob -Deker_ Deckanbaulm, good guy and good prices, actually have an order as we speak,
for forging i can definately say Rob at castlekeep,awesome guy to work with,had both mono steel and pattern welded bare blades for projects from him,
some good reccomendations above already too,
Michael at Volundforge,i think you'd be hard pressed to beat his prices to quality,nice guy too,
Owen Bush, i have steel with him at the mo soon to be returned,but the wares of his i've seen have been really good,
Todd does some beautifull work,
alot of choice,
but for me,from experience,
getting a billett first then sending it on saved me alot of pennies,,,,,,
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Ian Hutchison




Location: Louisiana / Nordrhein-Westholland
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Check out these places:

http://www.damascusarms.com - these guys have blank katana and tulwar (saber) blades. Lots of knife blanks.

http://www.ancientarms.biz - similar stuff

'We are told that the pen is mightier than the sword, but I know which of these weapons I would choose.' - Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov, 2009 2:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Is there a historical evidence that some blades were folded through the whole width of the blade, not just core with steel edges welded on? The stock would be the cheapest option but I haven't seen any stock that is not completely folded through whole width.

Lee, what place would you recommend for ordering a billet? All Massey and Owen Bush? Anyone else?
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Nov, 2009 4:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
Is there a historical evidence that some blades were folded through the whole width of the blade, not just core with steel edges welded on?
Yes, but it depends on period, and what you consider folded. Plain wrought iron blades are of piled structure, and occur up to at least the early medieval period. These are soft iron ones though, not made of layers of different steels. In the late iron age, piled swords with different steels were in use, but I don't know of this kind of structure being used in other periods (aside from perhaps accidental combinations of high and low carbon wrought in piled wrought swords).
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Antonio Lamadrid





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PostPosted: Tue 24 Nov, 2009 5:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does anybody know whether the Bamburgh Sword had monosteel edges or was the whole blade pattern-welded?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamburgh_Sword
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Nov, 2009 5:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Antonio Lamadrid wrote:
Does anybody know whether the Bamburgh Sword had monosteel edges or was the whole blade pattern-welded?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamburgh_Sword


This really is a separate question that deserves its own thread. It has little to do with affordable pattern-welded blades. Happy

Happy

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Lee O'Hagan




Location: Northamptonshire,England
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PostPosted: Tue 24 Nov, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka,
To be fair to answer,
what are you looking for specifically,and or for what type of blade,
a little while back Richard Furrer who posts here put up some blank billetts on Don Foggs forum for sale,very good billetts for the price,but with you asking about seperate edges to centre it moves the billett to a specific type,
over the years i've ordered things from cable billetts to pattern welded etc,
there are so many people i could reccomend who are allgood people,but alot i know are Stateside,But even factoring in taxes and postal it still normally runs 50% of some of the UK sellers or agents of pattern welded steel,
what sort of budget are you hoping to stay inside of ?
from memory,Admiral steel sell three types of pattern welded steel in bar form,quality,i couldnt comment on,
Highland Horn also stock billett steel,-Scotland,
when i enquired with Paul Binns over here he wasnt keen on thelength billett i was wanting saying about structural integrity etc,good guy though and i dont think billetts come under his long wait time either,
damasteel agents were approaching 4 figures a billett,
Kevin Cashen in the States has prices per inch on his site,nice guy to speak with too,very good rep on his steel,
if your keen on a lesser known smith,i would personally put a WTB in the sales section here addressed to the smiths and also put it up at Don Foggs forum,
i think Jeroen would have better knowledge of smiths nearer to you too,he's pretty good at all this stuff himself Wink
Markus's site already listed is one i think i may email too Big Grin Cool
all that said,i think you'll do really really well to come in under a 1000 euros,
all that said,we havent even mentioned steel types to use, etc,
period accuracy if you can afford it,

but although we're discussing reasonable budgets,i have to say,stay away and dont be tempted by some of the Indian damascus sold on ebay in billetts,
alot is etched monoteel,some is non hardenable pattern welded steel,
that from mine and others experience,there may be good steel coming from there,but i'm yet to hear,if anyone has had good experience,i'd be interested to hear and who from,
finding a good maker and the bumps along the way are half the fun Wink
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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PostPosted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009 3:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lee O'Hagan wrote:
i think Jeroen would have better knowledge of smiths nearer to you too,he's pretty good at all this stuff himself Wink
At patternwelding? I can't do that (yet)Happy But you know the very cheapest option is to make it yourself. Of course that will mean that you'll have to make that your life for the next few years to be able to make good patternwelded blades, particularly full size swords. But there are few things more fun then spending your free time that way though Happy
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009 3:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, after seeing all those prices I think it might pass quite some time before I'm able to order anything from anyone. Unless I try my luck with some cheap indian steel. Wink It's not my style to risk but it might be worth $150 risk... Thanks for all replies guys. Oh, btw, does anyone have a Windlass "damascus" viking? If so, what are your feelings about it? Happy
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Dan P




Location: Massachusetts, USA
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PostPosted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009 6:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not into Viking swords, but there's a review here:
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/damascus-steel.html
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Lee O'Hagan




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PostPosted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009 12:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Jeroen,
Yep i know the PW is wip for the future,but i've seen and followed a few of your threads with great interest,here and elsewhere, Cool
i was leaning towards you knowing people maybe closer to Luka, Big Grin

Luka,
For some years i thought the only thing that could improve the current best sword i had was a pattern welded blade,
perfect swords in monosteel in fact some pretty high end,then at that stage you look at them and think,hmm tad plain,to look at, steelwise,
further on i seem to be full circle and the pattern weld thing doesnt seem so important,
a well done hamon can be nicer to look at,skill with certain steels can produce some fantastic patterning with alloy banding, verywootzy looking,
if your serious about trying out some of the lower end pw steel,i'd personally lean toward a higher end monosteel blade and consider damascening of some type,
some of the etching people can achieve is fantastic,probly better when your thinking of retiring the blade to show status though,
or look towards a pw core with welded tool steel edges,been told this is cheaper than a full billett,maybe not from all makers,but worth a look,

or, you'll just have to do what i think alot of us do, Cry Eek! look at a pw sword as a long term project,2-5 year saving plan,
then again,as Jeroen said,start the long happy frustrating journey of working your own stuff, Wink Cool
but thats a whole other thread,and its a far deeper sickness than just collecting the swords,lol.
best,
lee
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lee O'Hagan wrote:
Hey Jeroen,
Yep i know the PW is wip for the future,but i've seen and followed a few of your threads with great interest,here and elsewhere, Cool
i was leaning towards you knowing people maybe closer to Luka, Big Grin

Luka,
For some years i thought the only thing that could improve the current best sword i had was a pattern welded blade,
perfect swords in monosteel in fact some pretty high end,then at that stage you look at them and think,hmm tad plain,to look at, steelwise,
further on i seem to be full circle and the pattern weld thing doesnt seem so important,
a well done hamon can be nicer to look at,skill with certain steels can produce some fantastic patterning with alloy banding, verywootzy looking,
if your serious about trying out some of the lower end pw steel,i'd personally lean toward a higher end monosteel blade and consider damascening of some type,
some of the etching people can achieve is fantastic,probly better when your thinking of retiring the blade to show status though,
or look towards a pw core with welded tool steel edges,been told this is cheaper than a full billett,maybe not from all makers,but worth a look,

or, you'll just have to do what i think alot of us do, Cry Eek! look at a pw sword as a long term project,2-5 year saving plan,
then again,as Jeroen said,start the long happy frustrating journey of working your own stuff, Wink Cool
but thats a whole other thread,and its a far deeper sickness than just collecting the swords,lol.
best,
lee


It probably will become a long term project and when I wait I might either buy something cheap to help me waiting or try to get someone etch my Hanwei Tinker Viking. Maybe custom fittings for it and it could look really good...
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David Huggins




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Wed 25 Nov, 2009 2:46 pm    Post subject: affordable         Reply with quote

Hi Luka

If its billets your after have a look here
http://www.damasteel.com/

best
Dave

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