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Nathan Quarantillo




Location: Eastern Panhandle WV, USA
Joined: 14 Aug 2009

Posts: 279

PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject: pointing of armour         Reply with quote

hello, i was wondering, just how does one point armour. i know its basically ties the armour to the gambeson or armng coat, or whatev you like to wear under your armour, but how does one tie it? like knots and so. which to use? whats the best way? do the laces wind up getting tied together, or what? how tight do you fasten the armour also? any help is appreciated thanks (btw, my pointing will be in the cuisses to my coat, and the pauldrons to my shoulders. i will be wearing a coat of maille underneath my plate, but i dont think this will be an issue as the legs point under it, and shoulder points look close enough to my neck to slide then out the neckhole. )
"Id rather be historically accurate than politically correct"
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Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 400

PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 3:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is the type of knot normally used:

http://www.florentine-persona.com/tying_bows.html


Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
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Matthew Fedele




Location: Auburn, NY USA
Joined: 21 Jul 2005

Posts: 64

PostPosted: Mon 16 Nov, 2009 4:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The knot that Blaz posted is the one. You see them all the time holding hose to doublet in paintings and woodcuts and they work great. It's easy with chainmail, but cloth needs to be reinforced. I avoid all synthetic fibers, they always seem to fail. Stick with linens, hemps, sisels, leather, etc. Hand braids are a nice touch too.

Cheers,
Matt
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Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
Joined: 26 Aug 2003
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 400

PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2009 1:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's not the only knot they used. Here's a different one, on a tip of a sabaton:



A knot like that would probably be just cut when undressing.


That's from the tomb of either Philip II the Bold (Philippe II le Hardi, 1342 - 1404) or John II the Fearless (Jean II sans Peur, 1371 - 1419), Burgundian dukes. It's in Musée des Beaux-Arts in Dijon, next to the both heavily restored tombs. Neither of them has an armour now, I guess Eugène Viollet-le-Duc was not up to the task.

Another alabaster piece from the original tomb, a fingered gauntlet:



Some details of the tombs, made by Claus Sluter and his workshop (in the case of John II the Fearless' tomb) , the mourners below are almost all originals, but the depictions of Dukes on top were destroyed by revolutionaries and looters:

John II the Fearless (1371 - 1419) and his wife, Marguerite de Baviere:


Philip II the Bold (1342 - 1404)






"Modern conservation practice finds Viollet-le-Duc's restorations too free, too personal, too interpretive, but many of the monuments he restored would have otherwise been lost."

Razz

I wonder how many people copied the padding of an aventail of Philip the Bold's bascinet, not knowing that it's a 19th century plaster.


Extant 15th Century German Gothic Armour
Extant 15th century Milanese armour
Arming doublet of the 15th century
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Boyd C-F




Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Joined: 08 Oct 2008

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sun 22 Nov, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The benefit of the knot linked to above is that they're very easy to undo as you only have to pull one of the tails.
This is very handy for leather thongs/cords especially when they're wet or when you're reaching around to undo the back points of your hose!
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