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Norbert Keller




Location: Hungary
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

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PostPosted: Tue 13 Oct, 2009 9:31 am    Post subject: Colored armor         Reply with quote

Hi there!

I know, in the past centuries, people were able to craft blackened armor, just wondering,on this picture, is this colour for amours authentic? If yes, how could they made it? And what other colours were pervading (for example in the 15th century)? Thanks for every answer you post Happy



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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Oct, 2009 9:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My guess would bet burning the plates with a mixture of tar and pigments. An aquaintance of mine did that with great success. He's an armourer by profession so I guess he knows what he's talking about. There are several different ways of blackening metal, all depending on the use of the item. But for armour I'd go with something that you burn dry to the surface.
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Norbert Keller




Location: Hungary
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Posts: 44

PostPosted: Tue 13 Oct, 2009 10:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks,

Well, I know, how to blacken armor with oil, my problem is with other colours Happy If I warm up the armor naturally, I can make a blue-purple like colour, and some other ,depending on the temperature. But the green is not the natural colour of the steel, so that's why I am a bit confused. And for example, blackening, my favourite is the "shiny"-black(attached picture). Dont know, how can it be made (blackening with oil gives a dark surface), if somebody knows the way to do it, please share it with me, because, I would like to make my own armor into that colour.



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Bill Grandy
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Oct, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I believe that armour is actually black, but the photograph makes it seem green.
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Adam D. Kent-Isaac




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PostPosted: Tue 13 Oct, 2009 11:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a beautiful parade armour that belonged to Prince Mikolas Radziwill of Lithuania:



I have seen very few armours that are so colorful; it seems to be enameled. There is a matching chaffron too which survives.



Some of the designs in the Greenwich album show red-tinted armours like this garniture for Robert Dudley, Earl of Leicester:



And this portrait of Francis, Duke of Brittany, son of Francis I, shows an armour with large sections of russeted steel:


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Lawrence Parramore





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PostPosted: Tue 13 Oct, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To get the nice shiny black, first do a high polish then heat it like you would for blue but just take it up to black.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Oct, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The armour in the original post is black. The greenish tint is due to lighting, printing or digital processing. The only olive green armour is on the modern battlefield. Big Grin
-Sean

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Lawrence Parramore





Joined: 24 Nov 2006

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PostPosted: Tue 13 Oct, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is a way to do green etc but don't know if it was done then, if copper or copper bearing alloys dissolve into a acid even slightly acid solution and you place a steel object in it the copper forms on the iron which can be very annoying. This is not modern plating but something that I think has always been known about, in some areas there are streams where copper will naturally 'plate' itself onto things.
And of course there are paints and textiles and so on that have been used on armour.
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Allan Senefelder
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Oct, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Radzwill armour is enameled.
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Michael Harley




Location: Melbourne, Australia
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a quick Photoshop colour balance adjustment that I think might be a bit closer to reality.


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Eric Hejdström




Location: Visby, Sweden
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PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 8:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't know about historical ways to do it but if it's just the colour that's desired maybe some of the modern browning, blueing and blackaning chemicals for guns work? Should be easily available from and place in the US that sells custom weapons or similar.
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Nathaniel C.





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PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 9:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've done some small projects using a gun bluing solution. It worked pretty well. If you want the shinny black finish then you must buff the steel to a near mirror polish before bluing. The gun bluing chemical solutions can also be difficult to get an even finish with. Because you have to apply it by hand it can come out kind of uneven. I'm sure this could be improved with practice though. I think its' easier than actual heat bluing.
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Norbert Keller




Location: Hungary
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

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PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi!

Thanks for the posts!

If I know well, gun-bluing chemicals are requires some kind of license to get it, so it can be a bit difficult, but I will try different mods, which ones I will prefer, thanks Happy
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Chris Arrington





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PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 10:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not sure about availability in Europe, but for metal plating/finishing products in the US, these guys have about anything you will need.

http://www.caswellplating.com/index.html
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Nathaniel C.





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PostPosted: Wed 14 Oct, 2009 11:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I used a product called Perma Blue. I bought it at the local gun store but here's a link to it on line. I could be wrong but it would seem strange to need a license for this stuff. All it does is accelerate oxidation in a controlled manner. Here's a picture of what it can look like- http://s675.photobucket.com/albums/vv112/Nath..._30209.jpg
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Norbert Keller




Location: Hungary
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Nov, 2009 11:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi there!

I am looking for examples of late 15th century german armour. Did they used blackening technic on these too? Thanks for any information you can get for me.
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Nov, 2009 1:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Norbert Keller wrote:
Hi there!

I am looking for examples of late 15th century german armour. Did they used blackening technic on these too? Thanks for any information you can get for me.


Absolutely! See the images below for depictions in artwork. To see how PermaBlue works on armour, see this thread about my sallet: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ght=sallet



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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Norbert Keller




Location: Hungary
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

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PostPosted: Fri 06 Nov, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Sean,

have any of these subsisted still in museums? My dilemma is, that a blacksmith making me such an armour, and he don't think it would be authentic (because apart from the sallets, he havent seen any original blackened armour of this type and age).
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JG Elmslie
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PostPosted: Sat 07 Nov, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Norbert Keller wrote:
Thank you Sean,

have any of these subsisted still in museums? My dilemma is, that a blacksmith making me such an armour, and he don't think it would be authentic (because apart from the sallets, he havent seen any original blackened armour of this type and age).


an awful lot of blackened armour has been overzealously polished to a white finish, particularly in the victorian era.
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Norbert Keller




Location: Hungary
Joined: 23 Apr 2009

Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sun 08 Nov, 2009 4:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hmm, good to know. I will still try to search on it though Happy Thanks
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