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Mike Arledge




Location: Indianapolis, IN
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 5:14 am    Post subject: Huge Anglo Saxon Horde Uncovered         Reply with quote

Hope this is the right forum, but my goodness what a great find!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12157...-gold.html

From the article:
Some of the collection's highlights:
SWORD HILT FITTINGS: At least 84 pommel caps and 71 sword hilt collars have been identified so far. They would have adorned a sword or seax (short sword or knife). Their elaborate and expensive decoration - many are made of gold and inlaid with garnets - suggests the weapons were once the property of the highest echelons of nobility.
HELMETS: Experts are piecing together what they believe are parts from several splendidly decorated helmets, including what appears to be a cheek-piece with a frieze of running animals. It has a relatively low gold content and has been specially alloyed, probably to make it more functional and able to withstand blows. There are also fragments of silver edging and reeded strips that may have been helmet fittings and an animal figurine that was possibly the crest of a helmet.
BIBLICAL INSCRIPTIONS: A strip of gold bearing a biblical inscription in Latin is one of the most significant and controversial finds. One expert believes that the style of lettering indicates it is from the seventh or early eighth centuries, while another dates it to the eighth or ninth centuries. The warlike inscription, mis-spelt in places, is thought to be from the Book of Numbers, Chapter 10 verse 35. The translation reads: 'Rise up, o Lord, and may thy enemies be dispersed and those who hate thee be driven from thy face.'
FOLDED CROSSES: The largest of two or three crosses in the hoard may have been an altar

Mike J Arledge

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Anders Backlund




Location: Sweden
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 5:36 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Treasure! Surprised Happy

I think this one is interesting:



Made for a single-edged sword?

The sword is an ode to the strife of mankind.

"This doesn't look easy... but I bet it is!"
-Homer Simpson.
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Sam Gordon Campbell




Location: Australia.
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 6:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Anders Backlund wrote:


Made for a single-edged sword?


Maybe a scramasax or what not?

Member of Australia's Stoccata School of Defence since 2008.
Host of Crash Course HEMA.
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Myles Mulkey





Joined: 31 Jul 2008

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm hoping that we'll get to see some new helmet types, or at least some good examples of ones that we already know of. Keep us posted! Laughing Out Loud
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Christopher Gregg




Location: Louisville, KY
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 7:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is absolutely unbelieveable! What a find! I also cannot wait to see new helmet types, as well as the impressive artwork. Wow!!! Cool This news has really made my week!
Christopher Gregg

'S Rioghal Mo Dhream!
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Amy B





Joined: 24 Sep 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 9:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

BBC has more pictures here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8272370.stm

They're suggesting that the hilt pictured above is from a seax... which is very interesting to me, as my (extremely limited) research on seaxes suggested that they didn't have hilts most of the time, or at least nothing like this. I can't wait to see more pictures of this find!
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Colin F.




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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 9:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The site of the hoarde itself.

http://www.staffordshirehoard.org.uk/

Melchett - "In short, a German spy is giving away every one of our battle plans."
Cpt. Darling - "You look surprised, Blackadder."
Edmund - "I cerainly am, sir. I didn't realise we had any battle plans."
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Michal Plezia
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just one word: WOW Eek!
www.elchon.com

Polish Guild of Knifemakers

The sword is a weapon for killing, the art of the sword is the art of killing. No matter what fancy words you use or what titles you put to
it that is the only truth.
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Amy B





Joined: 24 Sep 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 9:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And the official Flickr page:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/finds/[/url]
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Nick Larking




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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 9:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One hell of a find, wish i was the guy who discovered it.
*moves to england and buys metal detector*


Realy love this gold boss with inlaid garnets.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3452/3920445032_473c04de23.jpg

Those artifacts found are realy made by a master artist, they are just amazing.
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Mike Arledge




Location: Indianapolis, IN
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 9:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Amy B wrote:
And the official Flickr page:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/finds/[/url]


Nicely spotted, thanks!

Mike J Arledge

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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Really awesome, this find!

Anders Backlund wrote:
Treasure! Surprised Happy

I think this one is interesting:

Made for a single-edged sword?


I agree that it's more likely for a single-edged sword than for a sax. Such a guard for a sax would be unlikely.
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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 1:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am wondering if this too will be classified as a "viking" hoard (in 7th century era.) Per BBC's article the bent gold band has clear reference to Vulgate biblical passages; { "Rise up O Lord, and may thy enemies be dispersed and those who hate thee be driven from thy face." It has two sources, the Book of Numbers or Psalm 67}, although it could well have been stolen by whomever accumulated the hoard. The engraved band does not seem to match the garnet inlay style of the sword furniture. If it is 7th century, it should be of interest as a fairly early Christian era artifact for this region.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 2:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam Gordon Campbell wrote:
Anders Backlund wrote:


Made for a single-edged sword?


Maybe a scramasax or what not?
It's not of any type I know. It looks more like a sword guard then a sax bolster. My first thought it may have been a proto-langsax, but they only existed around the 5th century, so this would be much to late for that. After that you get the small saxes, then narrow saxes (late 6th, early 7th century). That's roughly the correct period, but the bolters on these are not much wider then the blade. This one is significantly wider, making it a guard rather then a bolster. So very fascinating, but yet also frustrating not to have the rest of the sword/sax whatever it is! Happy
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
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Amy B





Joined: 24 Sep 2009

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Sep, 2009 2:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a picture of the "seax" hilt with a ruler... looks like it's about 7.5 cm long and fits a 4 cm wide blade. By comparison, several other pieces identified as "sword hilt plates" are about 9 cm long with 5-6 cm blade openings.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/finds/3920652951/

It's got an interesting curved profile, too -- it bends back toward the pommel slightly on the bottom. You can see this more clearly in the group photo here (also good for size comparison with a pommel piece and some other sword fittings):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/finds/3930953675/
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Jeff Marlin




Location: Illinois
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 6:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just amazing.
This is going to teach us a great deal. The first thing is it seems that hilts were detached from their blades for burial in this way.

As far as the sax hilt, are we sure that curve is part of the design, rather than damage from being wrenched off its blade or from its burial or find conditions? I seem to remember reading that some of this may have been ploughed up as well.
I think it'll take a good bit of time and expert examination to say for sure.

In any case it's just marvelous, and I'm jealous of those who get to make these examinations.

"With love and action shall a man live in memory and in song."

"Farmer, those are hideous weapons!"
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 7:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The "sax" guard is of a type quite typical of "sandwich" style sword guards of the 6th.-7th. C. This coincides nicely with the Tierstil II decoration.

But it is still a sword guard, not a sax guard. Although from the picture the maximum blade width seems to be 4cm, which I think is on the narrow side for a single edged sword. And it would be very early for a single edged sword...

It's puzzling, but since the hilt seems to be the main difference between a sax and a single-edged sword, I guess it's a sword...
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C. Gadda





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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 8:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Myles Mulkey wrote:
I'm hoping that we'll get to see some new helmet types, or at least some good examples of ones that we already know of. Keep us posted! Laughing Out Loud


Me, too!

In looking at the piece they claim was part of a helmet cheekpiece, it does seem to parallel the shape of the cheekplates on both the Pioneer and Coppergate helms. If this proves to be so, then it would appear that this type of helmet really is a true "national" Anglo-Saxon style.

I eagerly await formal publication of this find.
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Amy B





Joined: 24 Sep 2009

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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 10:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff Marlin wrote:

As far as the sax hilt, are we sure that curve is part of the design, rather than damage from being wrenched off its blade or from its burial or find conditions? I seem to remember reading that some of this may have been ploughed up as well.


The curve really piqued my curiosity, as it looks to be really even across the width of the guard -- no twisting or buckling as is seen in some of the other pieces with obvious plow damage. I'm no expert on bending gold, though, so who knows.

Anyone have any nice reference pictures of other early sword guards with a curve like this?
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Richard Hare




Location: Alberta, canada
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PostPosted: Fri 25 Sep, 2009 7:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is an amazing find!
Quite overwhelmed with questions.

Has there been any new light shed on how the pyrimid fittings were used? I have H. E. Davidson's book, and when the book was written, it was not known exactly how these fittings were used.

These pieces remind me of the Sutton Hoo finds, but seem a slightly lower grade or maybe older??

This is pure idle speculation;
At Sutton Hoo, there are other burial mounds, some of which had been robbed in antiquity, Could there be a link to these new finds?

In the garnet decorated pieces, Does anyone know if the gold divisions are overlaid, or are they cells, and the garnets cut to the shape of the cells?
If the garnets were cut, how on earth did they cut them to such shapes?

Sorry for the Q's probably a bit hard to answer at present.

To me, the guard in the above photo looks like it has become bent, but I'm no expert!!!
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