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Tormod Engvig




PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 1:12 pm    Post subject: Opinions on Armour Class Pappenheimer         Reply with quote

Hello all!

Now that I've sold my MRL Pappenheimer, I am already thinking of getting another Big Grin . I noticed that Armour Class has what looks like a quite nice Pap, and at only 200 Pounds it seems very reasonable.

Has anyone had the chance to handle said Armour Class piece (the sharp version in particular)? How is it? Any quality vs. price issues (as in the, ahem, Windlass sense)? How historically accurate is it? How do they compare to the A&A rapiers?

Any opinions would be greatly appreciated!

-Tormod

"Skal til kamp på bølgen top, Dannebrog i stavnen op, gid der bag dets røde fold, står en helt som Tordenskjold."
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JG Elmslie
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Location: Scotland
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I'd say that Armourclass' stuff is tailored more toward active use among reenactors. In that field, I'd personally say their stuff is un-matched for value. They also do customised work, but it's never on their website... ask them if you've got particular plans.

the only negative point I could possibly make on their entire line-up is that waiting times are sometimes a bit on the long side.

that one gripe aside, I cant fault their stuff - but my experience is mostly focused to their reenactment/WMA gear. .
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Hugo Voisine





Joined: 25 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, the problem with their Pappenheimer rapier is that the hilt is too big. It's hard to see on the pictures but the basket is really too large...
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have owned one of their Pappenheimers and I cycled it to somebody else. It was nice but not great for the price. For the guy that ended up with it the sword was probably a pretty good deal, but he paid less than I did. I lost value on the sale of it because there was not a strong demand for these in the resell market at the time so I had to do some discounting.

Still better than a Windlass, but not as nice as the rapier stuff I've seen from A&A.

I've also handled an Armour Class basket hilt. It was/is very nice. Much nicer (I think) than my Pappenheimer was. My experience might be an exception to the rule (and is certainly subject to me). Nevertheless the sword I got did not meet my expectations (which in fariness might have been unrealistically high).

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy


Last edited by Joe Fults on Fri 18 Sep, 2009 5:25 pm; edited 5 times in total
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 4:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Now given all that I said in my last post, if I factor in current conversion rate:

200.00 GBP = 325.574 USD

Considering the price I'd actually say its a pretty fair deal (although international shipping can change the final equation a bit). I don't think its the equal of an A&A product but I do think the Armor Class Pappenheimer is better than half as good as an A&A rapier and it essentially sits at half the price (before variable costs are factored in).

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy


Last edited by Joe Fults on Fri 18 Sep, 2009 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ben Sweet




Location: 831
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PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 4:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's some photos of the one I bought from Joe.



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Tormod Engvig




PostPosted: Fri 18 Sep, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the opinions! The input is much appreciated. From what I can tell Armour Class is the only manufacturer left with a sharp Pappenheimer. I like the Pap hilt, but I don't feel like paying a fortune to have it custom made...
"Skal til kamp på bølgen top, Dannebrog i stavnen op, gid der bag dets røde fold, står en helt som Tordenskjold."
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Julian Reynolds




Location: United Kingdom
Joined: 30 Mar 2008

Posts: 271

PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep, 2009 12:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tormod,

I have a sharp AC Pap, and I think Ben's photos show all that's good (and bad) about it. The hilt is very sturdy as it's a re-enactor's sword (well, the blunt version is), but it's construction is very 'modern' looking ie. one thing that niggles me is the way the pierced shells are just welded to the back of the rings, rather than inlet - it spoils the line a bit. As stated above, the guard is quite large. I can't fault the blade.

I guess it 'looks' like a modern reproduction (which it is, of course), in the way my Darkwood Pap does, but it doesn't 'look' like the real thing in the way my Cervenka one does (or an A&A rapier does). However, there is a huge difference in price between a Cervenka/A&A and an AC, and for the money, you're getting an excellent Pap. Just a modern one.

Also, customer service at AC is not one of their strong points, and has turned off a fair few potential customers here in the UK.......

Julian
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 19 Sep, 2009 12:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't necessarily agree that the Armour Class hilt is too large as a sweeping statement. Many authentic Pappenheimer hilts were very large.

The problem with the Armour Class version is really the proportion of the parts more than simply the size. The grip is far too long. The pommel is too large. The pommel nut, or whatever you want to call it, is extremely large and not appropriate for this piece. The basket is oddly shaped in that it creates quite the "round" shape that is very strange. These are fatal flaws for me.

The particular sample I had also had some other fatal flaws including a really bad grip wrap (loose wire, bad seam), some very rough welds that were not cleaned up, and it didn't fit in the scabbard.

Attached are some photos of it in-hand to see the relative size.



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Armour Class Pappenheimer

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Armour Class Pappenheimer

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Armour Class Pappenheimer

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Armour Class Pappenheimer

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