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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > A Candidate for Reproduction? Reply to topic
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Tue 01 Sep, 2009 12:09 pm    Post subject: A Candidate for Reproduction?         Reply with quote

I was looking some of the type XIIIa swords, and it struck me that this one from the Glasgow Museum might be a cool one to do a reproduction of:

http://www.myArmoury.com/view.html?features/pic_spotxiii10.jpg

I think the longish grip with the somewhat shorter blade (34 inches), along with the particularly large style 7 guard, something rarely seen on modern reproductions, would make it a fairly unusual and interesting weapon to recreate.

What do you guys think?

Edit: I can't seem to get the image to display properly, so I've posted a link instead.
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Martin Erben




Location: Germany, Düsseldorf
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Sep, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think it looks pretty ugly... I wouldn't buy it because I think the part just over the cross looks very crudely made.
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M. Eversberg II




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Sep, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The cross looks like it's 600 years old you mean Razz

Looks interesting. I kind of like how it waists down towards the cross into a little ricasso. Reminds me vaguely of the AT1509.

M.

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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Sep, 2009 3:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very interesting sword to reproduce, in my opinion.

Definately something out of the ordinary, as far as reproductions go.

I would not expect very subtle handling, but maybe I'm mistaken...
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JG Elmslie
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Sep, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Actually, it's one of two that are side-by-side in the Kelvingrove that I've been seriously contemplating for reproduction.

(sort of contemplating going into doing swordmaking professionally, creating exact replicas of the weapons using stock removal processes, and been pretty much living in the Kelvingrove, and a few other collections, studying them in detail as I collect a library of reference notes of geometries and examples...)

one of the things that intrigues me about that sword is that there is an extremely odd puddling or marking of the steel just near the cross, seems like the blade might've been broken and roughly rewelded before it went into the hall of victories - though that is a guesstimate straight out of my arse, I hasten to add. the broadening, and noticable swelling just seems a bit odd to me. I intend to get a closer look at it someday, but it's a little greedy to say "I'd like to arrange a viewing... of everything!" isnt it?


anyhow, felt you'd enjoy one of the side-on shots of that cross from last time I was there.



 Attachment: 214.06 KB
A7627i-cross.jpg

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Thom R.




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Sep, 2009 5:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I like that sword too...... and I know which ones you guys are discussing. When I examined it last time I was there I was of the opinion that the sword had at one time been repaired and the tang re-welded to the blade (or a new tang welded) which may account for the rather strange blade geometry where it meets the cross. What I am saying is that - I am not convinced the sword and tang went together that way originally or that the two are original to each other. just my $0.02 tr
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Scott Kowalski




Location: Oak Lawn, IL USA
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PostPosted: Tue 01 Sep, 2009 6:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Craig,
I like it and say why not. Of course I do have a soft spot for XIIIa's.

JG,
Thank you for posting closeups of the guard and the "puddling" as it were. It is very interesting to think that it might have been repaired at some point. Makes you wonder how it was damaged to this extent.

Scott

Chris Landwehr 10/10/49-1/1/09 My Mom
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Tue 01 Sep, 2009 7:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To me this is one of those great swords that screams out - I'm here to cut you in half, not to please your eye. Not meaning this as a criticism - rather that it has a certain brutal functional look to it.

The overly rounded shoulders at the guard throws me off though - I would rather have the edges stay parallel right to the guard as in 99% of medieval swords. Is it possible it was like this originally and something went wrong in the repair job? The slot in the guard certainly looks wide enough in the close-up.
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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Wed 02 Sep, 2009 4:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, it looks like the cross fell down lower on the tang than it was originally and exposed the welded tang.
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Craig Peters




PostPosted: Sat 05 Sep, 2009 2:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey, Peter J, any chance we could see one like this from Albion some time in the future? Wink
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M. Eversberg II




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PostPosted: Sat 05 Sep, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What is the markings above the weld about? I can make out only "VII" on the upper right, but nothing else.

M.

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Luka Borscak




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PostPosted: Sun 06 Sep, 2009 3:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think it's VII as a number. It's an arabic scripture from Alexandrian armory.
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JG Elmslie
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PostPosted: Sun 06 Sep, 2009 10:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
What is the markings above the weld about? I can make out only "VII" on the upper right, but nothing else.

M.


Nashki Arabic:

"Inalienable bequest to the Armoury of the frontier city of Alexandria in the time of the Alsaifi Faris, the Commissary, A.H. 840"
(which dates its placement in the armoury - not it's manufacture - to 1430/1431 )


Here's a nother two pics of it, by the way.

the pommel is really crudely stuffed into the tang, with gaps, and a very rough peening. the tang itself, as you can see from the upwards shot, is fused around the blade almost like a sandwitch of metal.

my personal suspicion is that the entire tang is a replacement, and has been forge-welded roughly into position very crudely, just enough work to stick the cross and pommel onto it for placement in the hall of victories.



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A7627i-pommel.jpg


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A7627i-cross-2.jpg

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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Sun 06 Sep, 2009 4:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Perhaps another possibility -not mutually exclusive- was that this piece was put together from parts of 2-3 damaged swords for the victory display .
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