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Garrett Hazen




Location: California
Joined: 30 Aug 2006

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PostPosted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject: Single-hand sword combat?         Reply with quote

Are there any instructional books or dvd's that are recommended for medieval single hand sword combat? I can't seem to find any, though I may not be searching right.
Everything I'm finding is Longsword techniques or fencing/rapier fighting. Is there anything out there dedicated to the single hand sword?
like, even a youtube video that demonstrates it well?

a little history behind the question: when I render up the money I have my eye on a few albions. If I dare invest THAT much money into a sword, I want to know how to use it! I was contemplating either a Laird or a Fiore. I would easily find something to show me how to wield the latter, but the single-hand Laird?

any comments, advice, or recommendations are appreciated!

Learn to obey before you command--Solon of Athens
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Garrett, aren't there any medieval martial arts schools in your area? I was thinking the same thing about my collection 5 years ago. I tried learning from books but its difficult because you have no one to tell you that you are doing it wrong (which is a 100% certainty), and no one to practice with. I ended up taking some arming sword classes. Not enough to become a scholar, but at least enough to have some appreciation for how to handle the swords in my collection. Plus it was the most fun I've had since I was a kid. -JD
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Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
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PostPosted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There's a ton of videos on sword and buckler techniques which uses a one handed sword. There is also Messer techniques.

Here are some video links.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38sVdx7nzhQ&am...B69884BCC7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csMrmpNVnZ8&am...B69884BCC7
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHEs2m0IXAk&am...B69884BCC7
http://www.youtube.com/user/tossetoke#play/user/F06EB79CA8D17621

Hope this helps
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 11:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Royal Armouries has a manuscript number I.33 that covers single-handed sword and shield/buckler.

Jeffrey Forgeng has produced a facsimile of it and Paul Wagner & Stephen Hand have authored a companion piece to it:

The Medieval Art of Swordsmanship: A Facsimile & Translation of Europe's Oldest Personal Combat Treatise, Royal Armouries MS I.33 (Royal Armouries Monograph)

Medieval Sword & Shield: The Combat System of Royal Armouries MS I.33 by Paul Wagner, Stephen Hand

Happy

ChadA

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Garrett Hazen




Location: California
Joined: 30 Aug 2006

Posts: 57

PostPosted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J.D. Crawford wrote:
Garrett, aren't there any medieval martial arts schools in your area? I was thinking the same thing about my collection 5 years ago. I tried learning from books but its difficult because you have no one to tell you that you are doing it wrong (which is a 100% certainty), and no one to practice with. I ended up taking some arming sword classes. Not enough to become a scholar, but at least enough to have some appreciation for how to handle the swords in my collection. Plus it was the most fun I've had since I was a kid. -JD


Actually, not of any that I know about - though I would absolutely love participating in one. I am an hour north of San Diego, and it is hard to make the commitment to drive that long back and forth to study the sword, even if I am a fanatic.
If anyone knows of any schools close to Temecula, California, or the Inland Valley Empire, please please feel free to let me know.

Thank you for the videos and the book links, that was helpful!

Any instructional dvds?

Learn to obey before you command--Solon of Athens
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 2:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Agilitas.tv has a DVD on the messer that should give you a start.

M.

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Garrett Hazen




Location: California
Joined: 30 Aug 2006

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PostPosted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
Agilitas.tv has a DVD on the messer that should give you a start.

M.


Agilitas.tv has some awesome stuff on there!

Can you use messer techniques with a falchion? For that matter, can you use messer techniques with a given single hand sword? Because I didn't exactly have a messer in mind. Haha, maybe I should have.

Learn to obey before you command--Solon of Athens
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Vincent Le Chevalier




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PostPosted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You might want to get these DVDs about i.33. They should be more up-to-date than the interpretative book suggested above as well...
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Vincent
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Michael Curl




Location: Northern California, US
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PostPosted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 4:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is a fightschool in santa clara but that would be like 6-8 hours drive for you I think.
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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Sat 08 Aug, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Overall, it seems that the medevial one handed sword was more or less exclusively practiced with a shield or buckler. The shield work was presumably a military pursuit, handed down from senior to junior soldiers.
Sword and buckler, on the other hand, seems to have been practiced as a combat sport, which means that manuals where beeing written about it.
The only sword and shield figthing manuals i know of is italian renaisance masters, like the bolognese school, though these mostly deal with the rotella. However, many of the rotella techniqes could be used with the smaller 14th-15th c heater shields. Marozzo also has a small section on the Kite shield, which is the only figthing manual dealing with large enarmed shields that I know of.
Some of the german masters describe figthing with oversized, spiked duelling shields, but these are so far from the shields used outside that spesific type of duell that they are not that helpfull. (though some of it can be used as inspiration for round shield work.)

If you are going for the Laird, the targe and rotella are rather similar, so you could probably use some of the italian stuff.
(there are only so many ways of killing someone with a sharp metal stick, and so on...)

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 09 Aug, 2009 12:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Garrett: Maybe you already have these things in mind but don't confuse, collecting, test cutting, solo practice with a sharp with training with a partner(s) 1:33 sword and buckler or longsword with wasters and/or steel blunts.

So if you want an Albion sharp ( or any other high quality sharp sword ) you should get a similar handling blunt to learn how to use it.

The Tinker/Hanwai blunt is economical and of decent to very god quality:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~SH24...+Sword.htm

Or an Albion Maestro, squire or Skirmish line sword is also an option.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Hugh Knight




Location: San Bernardino, CA
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PostPosted: Sun 09 Aug, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Garrett Hazen wrote:
Actually, not of any that I know about - though I would absolutely love participating in one. I am an hour north of San Diego, and it is hard to make the commitment to drive that long back and forth to study the sword, even if I am a fanatic.
If anyone knows of any schools close to Temecula, California, or the Inland Valley Empire, please please feel free to let me know.


Hello,

I have a school with classes in North Hollywood and in Moreno Valley (near Riverside in the IE). Our school practices grappling, dagger, longsword, sword and buckler, pollaxe and spear of the Liechtenauer tradition both in and out of armor.

You can learn more about us at our website, here: www.schlachtschule.org
Or you may feel free to PM me for more information.

Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
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PostPosted: Sun 09 Aug, 2009 10:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Garrett Hazen wrote:
M. Eversberg II wrote:
Agilitas.tv has a DVD on the messer that should give you a start.

M.


Agilitas.tv has some awesome stuff on there!

Can you use messer techniques with a falchion? For that matter, can you use messer techniques with a given single hand sword? Because I didn't exactly have a messer in mind. Haha, maybe I should have.


The techniques are applicable to any single handed edged weapon.

M.

This space for rent or lease.
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Hugh Knight




Location: San Bernardino, CA
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PostPosted: Sun 09 Aug, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
The techniques are applicable to any single handed edged weapon.


Absolutely correct; Talhoffer seems to use messers and arming swords interchangeably in Alte Armatur und Ringkunst.

Regards,
Hugh
www.schlachtschule.org
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