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Cesare Paganini




Location: iTALY
Joined: 19 Jul 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: An authentic crousade sword         Reply with quote

Hello Everybody:

it is a splendid sword of the end of twelfth, beginning of the thirteenth century and I am in order to begin its restoration.
Probably it belonged to a crossed soldier, according with the silver cross on its pommel.
I need a little help. According you, what is its Oakeshott classification?

Tkank you so much

Cesare



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1.JPG
The sword

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2.JPG


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3.JPG
Cross on the pommel

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4.JPG
Pommel profile

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5.JPG
Decorations on blade

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Ben Dawson
Industry Professional



Location: New Glarus, WI
Joined: 18 Mar 2009

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Blade is a 10A-1 but not sure on the pommel. Very nice sword!!
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Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 1:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would say XI, but it's a bit atypical with it's strong taper (which could put it as an XII, but the fuller is definitely like in XI:

http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_spotxi.html

"This type is distinguished by having a slender blade, generally long in proportion to the hilt, with a very narrow fuller running to within a few inches of the point."

Good looking sword though, pommel looks very interesting. Can we get some more photos of the cross, and whole hilt area from various angles?


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Extant 15th century Milanese armour
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 1:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks very nice "as is" in the photo. If it were mine I would want to do much more than oil it and keep it in an indoor environment! What sort of restoration steps are you planning?
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Cesare Paganini




Location: iTALY
Joined: 19 Jul 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 2:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Blaz Berlec wrote:
Good looking sword though, pommel looks very interesting. Can we get some more photos of the cross, and whole hilt area from various angles?


I'm sorry, I have made few pictures, at this moment.
This one may be significant for you.

Hi
Cesare



 Attachment: 73.82 KB
elsa.JPG


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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 2:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is no need for a restoration and in any case you should contact a specialized shop with good credentials.

For example the archeo-metallurgical department of the University of Siena .. which specializes in medieval metallurgy..


http://archeologiamedievale.unisi.it/NewPages...index.html

With a non professional intervention you could ruin the item or devalue it greatly.

Mi raccomando ...
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Cesare Paganini




Location: iTALY
Joined: 19 Jul 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jared Smith wrote:
It looks very nice "as is" in the photo. If it were mine I would want to do much more than oil it and keep it in an indoor environment! What sort of restoration steps are you planning?


Hy
My intervention is a remediation of an old restore. You can see in attatched pictures that brown rust is forming under othe old protective film. It's very dangerous.

So, at first, I'll remove the old protective film, oxidizzed ad full of crevices, with appropriate solvents, then i'll consolidate new iron oxide by a treatment with alcoholic solution of tannic acid. at 2 %
Finally i'll protect all the surfaces by a thin layer of paraffine wax, at 95C of melting point, previously solved in petrolein lnaphta with a boiling piont of 80 - 100 C.

Salve
Cesare



 Attachment: 62.47 KB
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Blaz Berlec




Location: Podgorje, Kamnik, Slovenia, Europe
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wouldn't Renaissance Wax (microcrystalline wax) be enough for protection? I think Slovenian National Museum uses it nowadays for almost everything. It's easier to apply, easier to remove, and just as effective, if not more.

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Extant 15th century Milanese armour
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Cesare Paganini




Location: iTALY
Joined: 19 Jul 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Blaz Berlec wrote:
Wouldn't Renaissance Wax (microcrystalline wax) be enough for protection? I think Slovenian National Museum uses it nowadays for almost everything. It's easier to apply, easier to remove, and just as effective, if not more.


Hy Blaz.
I use a mix of microcrystalline wax at 70% melted witn 30% of neutral paraffine witha meltin point of 60 - 70 C becouse pure microcrystalline wax is too opaque
Paraffine only is too bright.
A mix of the two, is perfect, for me.

I use this mix to protect quite everything. Give a good protection and is easy to remove.

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Tim Lison




Location: Chicago, Illinois
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 4:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What a gorgeous sword! I hope your restoration goes well. I would agree that this sword does not neatly fit into Oakeshott's classification. The shape of the blade resembles a type XII with it's strong taper but the fuller looks more like a Xa being full length and broad. The cross is also unusual. It doesn't really look like a type 1, nor is it a perfect type 2. Very interesting pommel as well, perhaps type B would suit it best? A fascinating weapon. If I may ask, do you have any measurements for this sword? Length, width (at cross), weight, etc? I would love to know more about it!!!!!
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 5:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The blade is actually similar to St. Maurice of Turin in shape...
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Justin King
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Location: flagstaff,arizona
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

From the pictures the blade looks fairly thin in section, if this is the case I think it is arguably a X or a Xa. The edges of the fuller look like they may be worn somewhat, making it hard to tell how wide the fuller originally was, from the pictures. It perhaps has more profile taper than a typical X but Oakeshott's definition does allow for some variation in this.
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J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
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PostPosted: Mon 03 Aug, 2009 7:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for posting this picture - really interesting. Yes, this has both Xa and XII features. My guess is that Oakeshott himself might have called it either depending on what age he was at the time, or what mood he was in at the moment. In 'Records of the Medieval Sword' one can see several examples of swords much like this: long-fullered (Xa feature), short-to-medium grip for one hand (Xa or XII), pronounced profile taper (XII feature) classified both under Xa and XII and fitting perfectly into neither.

Apparently medieval sword makers did not feel restricted to arbitrary 20th century classification schemes!
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