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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Arms and armor with signs of use/battle damage Reply to topic
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Aleksei Sosnovski





Joined: 04 Mar 2008

Posts: 313

PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul, 2009 1:25 am    Post subject: Arms and armor with signs of use/battle damage         Reply with quote

I create this topic to gather information about arms and armor with signs of use, wear, and battle damage. Things that are expected to be posted here:

1) photos
2) historical art
3) descriptions (extracts from books, historical literature, etc.)
4) Results of modern experiments
5) Links to other resources that contain related information

In other words, all pictorial and verbal materials closely related to the subject.

I humbly ask everyone to refrain from asking questions or expressing personal opinion in this thread as I would like this thread to be a kind of database.

Thanks in advance to everyone who adds information to this thread.
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David E. Farrell




Location: Evanston, IL
Joined: 25 Jun 2007

Posts: 156

PostPosted: Fri 31 Jul, 2009 11:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are gobs of examples, but I only have pics of a couple.

Churburg S-18 Gauntlets (these definitely have seen better days)



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AKA: 'Sparky' (so I don't need to explain later Wink )

For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother
-- King Henry, Henry V, William Shakespeare

Before I came here I was confused about this subject. Having listened to your lecture I am still confused... but on a higher level.
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Cesare Paganini




Location: iTALY
Joined: 19 Jul 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 8:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi.
My first contribute:
A Savoiard helmer - beginning of 1600 - pireced by a "quadrellone da breccia" . The warrior wearing the halmet, was pierced too.

Cesare from Italy



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WEAPONS ARE OUR HISTORY
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Reading list: 3 books

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Posts: 1,435

PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 9:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Cesare Paganini wrote:
Hi.
My first contribute:
A Savoiard helmer - beginning of 1600 - pireced by a "quadrellone da breccia" . The warrior wearing the halmet, was pierced too.

Cesare from Italy


This is the only thing I found for "quadrellone da breccia" that had a perfect match. Couldn't have been that if it pierced him and managed to come out the other side, judging from the way the steel flares out around the hole.

What kind of weapon is the quadrellone da breccia?

M.[/img]

This space for rent or lease.
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Vincent Le Chevalier




Location: Paris, France
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Reading list: 15 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 860

PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 10:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
What kind of weapon is the quadrellone da breccia?

It's the Italian name of the Ahlspiess, as written here. I think your image was wrongly associated to the words by the search engine as it is on another page that contains the terms. I guess the name comes from the square section of the long pike on this weapon.

More pictures in this thread.

--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Cesare Paganini




Location: iTALY
Joined: 19 Jul 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 11:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
Cesare Paganini wrote:
Hi.
My first contribute:
A Savoiard helmer - beginning of 1600 - pireced by a "quadrellone da breccia" . The warrior wearing the halmet, was pierced too.

Cesare from Italy


This is the only thing I found for "quadrellone da breccia" that had a perfect match. Couldn't have been that if it pierced him and managed to come out the other side, judging from the way the steel flares out around the hole.

What kind of weapon is the quadrellone da breccia?

M.[/img]


The "quadrellone da breccia" is an infantery pole veapon, very simple,.Its blade has a square section
Sorry. My english is very bad and I don' know the English name of "quadrellone".
For a better description, I attach some pictures of a sixteenth century quadrellone, from "my" museum, near Verona (Italy)



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WEAPONS ARE OUR HISTORY
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Cesare Paganini




Location: iTALY
Joined: 19 Jul 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

[It's the Italian name of Ahlspiess

Thanks. Ahlspiess may be the weapon who caused the elmet pearce .
But the Ahlspiess is quite different by quadrellone.
Here is some pictures of an ahlspiess remains, present in medieval weapons collection of "my" museum.
Cesare



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WEAPONS ARE OUR HISTORY
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
Joined: 09 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 12:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"Quadrellone" as Caesar said it was a square blade,
to push one's way through the crowd.
Breccia = to find the way, breach, corridor in to enemy
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Vincent Le Chevalier




Location: Paris, France
Joined: 07 Dec 2005
Reading list: 15 books

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Posts: 860

PostPosted: Sun 02 Aug, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, the everlasting wonders of pole weapons terminology Wink Whatever the exact name is I think the shape of the business end is pretty clear now Happy
--
Vincent
Ensis Sub Caelo
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Kirk Lee Spencer




Location: Texas
Joined: 24 Oct 2003

Spotlight topics: 6
Posts: 820

PostPosted: Fri 07 Aug, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Arms and armor with signs of use/battle damage         Reply with quote

Aleksei Sosnovski wrote:
I create this topic to gather information about arms and armor with signs of use, wear, and battle damage. Things that are expected to be posted here:

1) photos
2) historical art
3) descriptions (extracts from books, historical literature, etc.)
4) Results of modern experiments
5) Links to other resources that contain related information

In other words, all pictorial and verbal materials closely related to the subject.

I humbly ask everyone to refrain from asking questions or expressing personal opinion in this thread as I would like this thread to be a kind of database.

Thanks in advance to everyone who adds information to this thread.



Here are a couple of pictures...

ks



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Palace Armouries in Valetta. 1650

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May not be battle damage but part of the ritual "killing" of the sword.

Two swords
Lit in Edenís flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Sun 09 Aug, 2009 7:27 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Look at the cuirass near the bottom of this article:

http://www.wtj.com/articles/napart/

Now that's what I call battle damage.
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 918

PostPosted: Sun 09 Aug, 2009 10:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Courtesy of Cesare Paganini as well, with whom I spent a very interesting afternoon.

Consolidation work of this skullcap was made by Cesare, there is not enough metal under the concretion layer to justify a removal, the artifact would likely crumble, so it must remain in this state.

http://bghomofaber.googlepages.com/catepiscina058.jpg
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Tony Brass





Joined: 15 Oct 2006

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Sun 09 Aug, 2009 6:20 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

On a related issue,

How much damage could a sword sustain before it would be deemed useless, or at least no longer a vialble battle weapon. How many dents, chips, etc... could a sword blade sustain before it had to be replaced?

I have heard a sword blade is permanently weakened when it is struck blade to blade, and it nicks; that microscopic hairline fractures branch off from the nick/dent and weaken the blade.

I have a "beater" sword from windlass that has absorbed lots of nicks and dents, purposefully. But it would absolutley be useful in a fight, and still seems stout.

Thoughts???
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