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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 3:51 pm    Post subject: Historical correctness or plausibility of Tinker Viking         Reply with quote

Hello people. Here is the thing. I'm considering buying a Tinker Viking sharp sword and I'm concerned with its historical correctness. Ian G. Pierce says in his Swords of the Viking Age that Petersen noted that in contrast with type D, the pommels of type E are fastened directly to the tang rather than being riveted to the upper guard.
Now, my question is were type E pommels still two piece pommels but not riveted together, just peened on the top, or were they one piece pommel like let's say type C? This picture I posted look like the pommel is two piece. If anyone who speaks Norwegian have the Petersen book, does Petersen maybe mentions maybe more rare type E pommels made in one piece like there is a case with type K pommels? I like the Tinker Viking just like it is but I like historical correctness more and I will modify pommel if there is no historical at least plausibility in the one piece pommel design.

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Jeremy V. Krause




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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 4:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I know that I have seen a Patrick Barta interpretation of this sword so if you want historical accuracy well. . . you know. Wink
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 4:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, yes, I know, I'll rob the bank tomorrow... Wink
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David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's the thing: In the price range of the Tinker Viking, there are no truly 100% accurate Viking swords with the multi-piece pommel construction. The simplification is done in the interest of cost savings; although, Kris Cutlery is about the only one that has such a feature, that I know of; but none of the other "budget level" Viking swords (Windlass, Del Tin, Gen 2, etc) seem to. Albion's Next generation Viking swords do have the two-piece pommels, but are considerably more expensive.

Now, I can't comment on whether a one-piece pommel is accurate for the type, but I'm leaning towards "no".... so, you'll probably have to "do it yourself", which sounds like a fun project. If you choose to undertake such a project, keep us updated on your progress and show us the results when you're done!

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Wed 22 Jul, 2009 5:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What is the difference between E and V? Looking at page 18 of Pierce's book, it looks like V might be a more modern one-piece version of E.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 4:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It seems that V is just a bit simplified and a bit more semicircular version of E that appeared in the 10th century. It's construction is actually more or less the same as Tinker Viking. Thanks J.D., I somehow skipped that type. So maybe Tinker could pass as a some kind of transition between the two types. Like type B on the page 34 of Petersen which is typical B in shape but with a pommel riveted to the guard, which is construction typical for type H in which type B evolved.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 4:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I might just get the Tinker and later when I get more money get a custom made pommel for it if I'll want a typical two piece pommel of earlier period.
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J.D. Crawford




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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's a very nice sword for the money. It almost has a 'Roman' look to it. I would be comfortable with putting it in the plausible category and get it...since you're into pommel projects, Luka, that just leaves more fun down the road when you get bored.

-JD
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Lee O'Hagan




Location: Northamptonshire,England
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 11:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Luka,
Why not ask Tinker for a quote on the pommell while he has the sword in hand so to speak,
or he could rough you out the fitted components and you could have them final finished in the future when funds are better,
i had a long drawn outpurchase from Michael,(on my side,he was very gracious throughout)
He's pretty cool with stuff,
and it would mean your sword stays all Tinker,
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think there was some local variation as well.

For instance, Moravian swords, which otherwise seem more or less identical to "Viking" swords, seem to generally have a one piece pommel with the tang being peened at the pommel rather than at the upper guard.

But regarding the Hanwei / Tinker Viking, that sword does have some other historical issues that seem more glaring to me than the pommel...

If you do want a two piece construction, I can recommend Vladimir Cervenka.

Edit: my first post! Finally! Happy
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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 1:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There was variation even in close period and proximity. British-saxon smithing sites versus Norwegian excavations were commented on as having differences (more solid pommel finds for type K in Scandinavian cutler sites than in UK sites at same time period.) I have since lost it, but actually came across an archeological paper regarding finds of 9th 10th century smithing sites. The finds indicated that when Vikings hilted the blades themselves, they went solid construction. When the entire finished blade was an import, the hollow and pinned construction was the norm.
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 3:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lee O'Hagan wrote:
Hi Luka,
Why not ask Tinker for a quote on the pommell while he has the sword in hand so to speak,
or he could rough you out the fitted components and you could have them final finished in the future when funds are better,
i had a long drawn outpurchase from Michael,(on my side,he was very gracious throughout)
He's pretty cool with stuff,
and it would mean your sword stays all Tinker,


I'm in Croatia and I buy only stuff available at local sword shops. Happy Ordering from abroad would be too expensive.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Jul, 2009 3:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Hansen wrote:
I think there was some local variation as well.

For instance, Moravian swords, which otherwise seem more or less identical to "Viking" swords, seem to generally have a one piece pommel with the tang being peened at the pommel rather than at the upper guard.

But regarding the Hanwei / Tinker Viking, that sword does have some other historical issues that seem more glaring to me than the pommel...

If you do want a two piece construction, I can recommend Vladimir Cervenka.

Edit: my first post! Finally! Happy

What are the "other" issues? Wink
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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009 1:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
What are the "other" issues? Wink


In my opinion only:
- Blade looks too pointy
- Strange termination of the fuller at the tip
- Fuller stops abrubtly before the guard
- Fuller looks too deep

I have not seen the sword in person, so maybe it's better than what it shows on pictures, and based on Tinker's reputation, it seems reasonable to assume that this sword handles and cuts very well.

Given your location, I would give the various Czech smiths a closer look, as well as Del Tin.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009 3:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Hansen wrote:
Luka Borscak wrote:
What are the "other" issues? Wink


In my opinion only:
- Blade looks too pointy
- Strange termination of the fuller at the tip
- Fuller stops abrubtly before the guard
- Fuller looks too deep

I have not seen the sword in person, so maybe it's better than what it shows on pictures, and based on Tinker's reputation, it seems reasonable to assume that this sword handles and cuts very well.

Given your location, I would give the various Czech smiths a closer look, as well as Del Tin.


Ha ha... I noticed some of them... I will round the point a bit and fuller stoped before the guard just on the prototype, not anymore. So, two of them solved. Wink As Croatia is not in EU ordering from any EU country is quite expensive, I buy only things I can order from my local sword shop here in Croatia. I have two Del Tin blades, 2130 and 2142 and I love them, but I would like something with more distal taper and livelier handling now, although I might order 2070 and get it hilted locally sometimes in the future. I hear that 2070 is quite a light blade.
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David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Hansen wrote:


In my opinion only:
- Blade looks too pointy
- Strange termination of the fuller at the tip
- Fuller stops abrubtly before the guard
- Fuller looks too deep

I have not seen the sword in person, so maybe it's better than what it shows on pictures, and based on Tinker's reputation, it seems reasonable to assume that this sword handles and cuts very well.

Given your location, I would give the various Czech smiths a closer look, as well as Del Tin.


1. True, it's pointy. I can't comment on whether this is totally wrong or not.
2. It's not so strange, when you compare it to some other swords in the same price range (of course, we're not talking historical accuracy here).
3. Not true as regards the sharp version. Can't comment on the "dull" version.
4. Again, it's not so deep in comparison with some other Viking-type swords in it's price range (Here again, I'm not talking about historical accuracy).

The balance is great and handling is wonderful. It floats through the air -- there's kind of a cognitive dissonance thing going on, as it's a pretty wide blade, but with plenty of distal taper. The edge is kind of odd, as it starts out not too sharp and gets sharper on down the blade, and even then it's not as sharp as it could be. But this could be easily enough resolved with a little judicious sharpening. Other than that, it's a darn nice sword.

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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David Wilson




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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009 6:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:


Ha ha... I noticed some of them... I will round the point a bit and fuller stoped before the guard just on the prototype, not anymore. So, two of them solved. Wink As Croatia is not in EU ordering from any EU country is quite expensive, I buy only things I can order from my local sword shop here in Croatia. I have two Del Tin blades, 2130 and 2142 and I love them, but I would like something with more distal taper and livelier handling now, although I might order 2070 and get it hilted locally sometimes in the future. I hear that 2070 is quite a light blade.


The 2070 is one of those swords Del Tin gets just about right, in terms of historically accurate handling qualities. It weighs just about 2.5 lbs (same as the Tinker Viking), but it's blade heavy, with a CoG about 7 or 8 inches or so down the blade, so it might throw you off if you're expecting a lively blade. It's definitely a hacker/slasher and can be mastered with some practice.

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

Now available on Amazon: Franklin Posner's "Suburban Vampire: A Tale of the Human Condition -- With Vampires" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072N7Y591
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Sat 25 Jul, 2009 4:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for your input David. I just thought I would throw in this two pictures, both of blades with quite deep fuller and the second one, one I'm sure we all are familiar with, with both relatively deep fuller and pointy. Wink


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