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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Sword Info Reply to topic
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Christopher Maynard




Location: Pretoria
Joined: 20 Jul 2009

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 20 Jul, 2009 10:41 pm    Post subject: Sword Info         Reply with quote

Hi All,

I've come across a old sword and have little knowledge of its origins, from what I do know is that its a ceremonial sword and that's about it. Can anyone please provide me with more information on it or direct me on where to find info. On the the one side it has a manufacturer stamp the says "J & B PEARSE & CO. 28 FLORAL ST COVENT GARDEN WC". On the other side it has the Star of David and inside there is a stamp with a crown and "PROVED" written underneath. Ive attached three photos but can always add more.

Regards,

Christopher



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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 4:42 am    Post subject: Re: Sword Info         Reply with quote

Christopher Maynard wrote:
Hi All,

I've come across a old sword and have little knowledge of its origins, from what I do know is that its a ceremonial sword and that's about it. Can anyone please provide me with more information on it or direct me on where to find info. On the the one side it has a manufacturer stamp the says "J & B PEARSE & CO. 28 FLORAL ST COVENT GARDEN WC". On the other side it has the Star of David and inside there is a stamp with a crown and "PROVED" written underneath. Ive attached three photos but can always add more.

Regards,

Christopher


It is 19th c. or 20th c., English of course. The brass plug is a proof slug which has been disucssed here before. From the full length photo it appears to be a half basket but a better shot of the hilt area will be helpful. It also appears to have a sword knot attached to the hilt.

If you can provide a more detailed photo of the hilt I think you will get more replies.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Christopher Maynard




Location: Pretoria
Joined: 20 Jul 2009

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 4:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hope these two help?


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William Goodwin




Location: Roanoke,Va
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 5:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

looks to be a P1897 style British infantry officers dress sword.

Are there any monarch cypher markings on guard of blade (GV - George V etc.)

As far as name marks...more than likely just a retailer. (I'm at work and don' t have access to my reference material) The proof mark ..are there any other markings
within the plug, say a small letter or such? This would help to ID the sword more effeciently along iwth any cypher markings.


cheers,

Bill

Roanoke Sword Guilde

roanokeswordguilde@live.com
"I was born for this" - Joan of Arc
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Christopher Maynard




Location: Pretoria
Joined: 20 Jul 2009

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 5:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Bill

The only wrinting I can find on the blade itself is the letters ER. That and the crown inside the Star of David.
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Christopher Maynard




Location: Pretoria
Joined: 20 Jul 2009

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 6:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is another marking I found, its on the handle.


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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 7:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is a VR cypher for Victoria Regina (aka Queen Victoria) and would date the sword to between 1897 and 1901. I cannot find any firm dates for Pearse but they appear to have been active at the turn of the century. I agree with Bill that the firm is likely a military outfitter/tailor. Searching this forum and Sword Forum International for the patterns of 1895 and 1897 will yield a good amount of information on this type of sword. I hope that is of help!

Jonathan
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Christopher Maynard




Location: Pretoria
Joined: 20 Jul 2009

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 8:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hi guys, thank you for all the information! i really appreciate it.. any guestimates to the value of such a sword? main reason being is for insurance purposes. sorry for my grammor and spelling, currently on my mobile haha.

Regards,
Chris
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

To clarify, the guard has the VR cypher, but the blade has ER? If ER appears on the blade I would guess it to be ERVII, for Edward VII (1902-11). If this is the case then the original blade needed replacing for one reason or another, probably breakage or some other defect. If you could post a photo of the initials on the blade that would be a tremendous help. As far as value I would expect to see a sword like yours (condition, no scabbard) to go for between $150-$200 US, maybe closer to the $200 mark since it does retain its sword knot. All in all it is a decent example of a Boer War era officer's sword.

Jonathan
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 10:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The P1897, in short...

The Pattern 1897 Infantry Officer's Sword was not an entirely new pattern. It is the same as a Pattern 1895 Infantry Officer's Sword, but with one small modification; the inner edge of the guard is turned up to prevent fraying the uniform when the sword was being worn. The Pattern 1895 Infantry Officer's Sword was introduced 1896 following the introduction of a new blade in 1892. The Pattern 1892 blade (said to have been designed by Colonel Fox, Chief Inspector of Physical Training at the Board of Education) was a radical departure from the previous cut and thrust blade of the Pattern 1845/1854 Infantry Officer's Sword. The P1892 blade is a wicked thrusting blade that has a dumbbell cross section for just over half of its length. The plated steel bowl guard of the P1895 offered superior protection compared to its predecessors and was to have either a 5 inch or 5 1/2" grip, depending on the size of the officer's hand. The P1897 is the same sword with some minor cosmetic modifications--the inner edge of the guard is turned down and the piercings on the guard are smaller.
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 10:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The star of David; I've seen this before on another sword here. From what I recall, it's not actually a star of David, just two triangles that happen to look like it.

M.

EDIT: Here, check this post. http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=165560#165560

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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
The star of David; I've seen this before on another sword here. From what I recall, it's not actually a star of David, just two triangles that happen to look like it.

M.

EDIT: Here, check this post. http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?p=165560#165560


It was originally used by the Wilkinson Sword folks as part of their "proof" marks but ended up being used by nearly every sword maker in Britain. I get a lot of questions about that when I take my 1828 pattern basket hilt to Highland Games.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Tue 21 Jul, 2009 11:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lin Robinson wrote:
It was originally used by the Wilkinson Sword folks as part of their "proof" marks but ended up being used by nearly every sword maker in Britain. I get a lot of questions about that when I take my 1828 pattern basket hilt to Highland Games.


This seems to be the first thing people notice. I doubt it caused quite so much discussion in the 19th century.

Jonathan

PS--I'd love to see your P1828!
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