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William O Richardson




Location: Montreal, Canada
Joined: 17 Jul 2009

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri 17 Jul, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: 1853 Pattern Cavalry Sabre, need to identify         Reply with quote

This sabre has recently come into my possession. It is presumably a Canadian sword, because that's where it came into my grandfather's possession in the sixties. It has ordnance marks from the UK; the crown over 7, and a letter 'B' stamped on the back of the blade. It also has something carved into the grip. It is, as far as I can tell, an 1853 Pattern Sabre, but the hanging rings are opposite each other, and my understanding is that, on the scabbard of the 1853 pattern, the rings were separate.

The blade is in excellent condition and the patina is untouched. There are a few dents in the scabbard, and one of the throat screws is missing.

Can anyone tell me anything about this sword? Date it, etc?










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Jonathan Hopkins




PostPosted: Sat 18 Jul, 2009 5:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The 7 and crown is a government inspection stamp. The B could signify a Birmingham inspector, but with the absence of a crown I am not sure. It could have something to do with the bend test to which these swords were subjected. Unfortunately I spend most f my time doting on officers' swords which do require a knowledge of the government markings. I need to work on that!

The scabbard with opposing rings near the throat was introduced with the P1885 cavalry trooper's sword and remained the norm for troopers' sword scabbards. Although the P1853 was phased out and replaced by the P1864, some branches of service were allowed to continue using the P1853 (e.g. Royal Horse Artillery). P1853s would have been used by yeomanry units after 1864, as well, however yours bears no regimental markings. Canadian use is a possibility.

Sorry I could not be of more help! If you don't get more information here, you may also want to try posting in the Antique & Military section of Sword Forum International. There are a few specialist Canadian collectors there.

Best Regards,
Jonathan
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Timo Nieminen




Location: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 08 May 2009
Likes: 1 page
Reading list: 1 book

Posts: 1,494

PostPosted: Sun 19 Jul, 2009 3:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks like an 1853 pattern sword with an 1885 or 1899 scabbard.

The 1864 and onwards swords had sheet-steel guards; the 1853 looks like the only good candidate. This was declared obsolete 1893 or so.

However, the 1853 is longer than the 1885/1899 scabbards:

1853 blade: 35.5"
1885 scabbard: 35.5"
1899 scabbard: 34.5"

Scabbard lengths are exterior tip-to-tip

1853 modified to fit a later scabbard? You might like to measure the scabbard. (And blade, and weigh them.)
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William O Richardson




Location: Montreal, Canada
Joined: 17 Jul 2009

Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun 19 Jul, 2009 3:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's what I was thinking, and measuring is definitely a good idea. I mean, it's definitely an 1853 pattern sword, but I wonder if this with the scabbard is something a specific regiment did? As for that carving in the grip. . . No idea what that's all about. . . As far as I'm aware, the sword was purchased in the sixties in St. Catharines, Ontario, at a garage sale.
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