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Gabriele Becattini





Joined: 21 Aug 2007

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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jun, 2009 3:21 am    Post subject: sword- daggers with heraldic pommel         Reply with quote

hello,

i would like to know if someone could show me some example of daggers/sword with heraldic engraved/enamelled pommels,

one nice example has been posted by Chad Arnow with his reproduction of a menber of the Balliol's family dagger, so i'm

very curious to see other examples.

thanks for help

Gabriele
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jun, 2009 7:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Check out this thread for a couple of examples:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=10910




There's also the sword of Edward III:



There is a family of 14th century daggers with large hollow pommels, called "Burgundian heraldic daggers". I think there's some question whether the symbols on those pommels is heraldic or just decorative.

The sword of Estorre Visconti features heraldry as well, seen here: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=2555 .





A Type XII from Madrid:


The sword of Albrecht II:



So there are a half dozen from around this site. Happy There are more, but that involves digging through books and firing up the scanner.

Happy

ChadA

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Kimon Andreou




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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jun, 2009 5:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Great pics!

Which books did you get these from?
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jun, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kimon Andreou wrote:
Great pics!

Which books did you get these from?


They're from a variety of sources. You can find these and similar pics in Records of the Medieval Sword, Armi Bianche, Peter Finer catalogues and other books.

Happy

ChadA

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Danny Grigg





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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jun, 2009 11:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Don't forget the Burgundian Dagger.

http://guerriers-du-moyen-age.aceboard.fr/123...gnonne.htm

http://quaero-et-adamo.com/english/antique_daggers.htm

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joc...mp;DOM=All

http://www.culture.gouv.fr/public/mistral/joc...mp;DOM=All

http://www.myArmoury.com/albums/displayimage....mp;pos=181


There's information and b&w photos re Burgundian Daggers in the book "Daggers and Fighting Knives of the Western World by Harold L. Peterson.

Danny
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Gabriele Becattini





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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jun, 2009 2:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Chad and Danny for the great pics, in your opinion such kind of ornate weapons where for show or for a kind of bearing sword, or for war as well?
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jun, 2009 6:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Danny Grigg wrote:
Don't forget the Burgundian Dagger.


They were mentioned above. I just didn't have any pics handy. Thanks for the pics. Happy Some of the so-called Burgundian daggers are clearly not heraldic while some are.

I really like this one that you linked to:





Its the closest I've seen to the dagger I had replicated (though it's still not that close):


Happy

ChadA

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jun, 2009 6:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's another: the sword of Pierre de Cros, Archbishop of Arles, dated to circa 1380. The sword can be linked from the heraldry to his family by the crest on one side of the pommel and the title "Archiepiscopus" on the rear of the pommel links it to Pierre, the only one of three cardinals in the family to have also been an Archbishop.


 Attachment: 35.7 KB
de cros 2.jpg


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ChadA

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Jun, 2009 6:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriele Becattini wrote:
Thanks Chad and Danny for the great pics, in your opinion such kind of ornate weapons where for show or for a kind of bearing sword, or for war as well?


I think many (most, if not all) of the weapons posted in this thread were real weapons of war. A few show signs of what appears to be battle damage.

Happy

ChadA

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Gabriele Becattini





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PostPosted: Tue 23 Jun, 2009 1:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Inside one of the osprey books about the Crusader, i have seen a reproduction of the pommel of Peter Dreux of Brittany,killed at the battle of mansurah during the fifth(?) crudade, showing his arms (chequy azur and or with a canton in the upper left with the ermine of brittany) at one side and a green cross at the other side, i don't know if it's still existing.
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Danny Grigg





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PostPosted: Sun 28 Jun, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I found some small colour photos of the Type XII from Madrid that Chad posted.

The sword is located in the "Instituto de Valencia de Don Juan" and it is Type XIX.6 in Oakeshott's Records of the Medieval Sword.

http://oronoz.com/muestrafotostitulos.php?ped...bla=Claves

Danny
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 30 Jun, 2009 7:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's an English riding sword with a crest (unidentified) on the pommel.


 Attachment: 25.88 KB
nene 2.jpg
Sword from the River Nene in England

 Attachment: 16.24 KB
nene 1.jpg


Happy

ChadA

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Gabriele Becattini





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PostPosted: Mon 06 Jul, 2009 3:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

just another question: any surviving 16th century complex hilt sword with heraldic pommel?
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Michael B.
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PostPosted: Fri 24 Jul, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looking for a digital photo of it, but the hand and a half sword of Duke Christopher of Bavaria c.1480, has a heraldic pommel. It is a very ornate sword.
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Michael Bergstrom
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Kel Rekuta




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PostPosted: Sun 26 Jul, 2009 11:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriele Becattini wrote:
just another question: any surviving 16th century complex hilt sword with heraldic pommel?


There are a number of sword and dagger pommels in the collection images at the Museo Lazaro Galdiano in Madrid. The website is entirely in Spanish but most of it translates easily enough to English. Many of them have heraldic decoration.
http://www.flg.es/bus_listado.asp
look in "ARMAS Y ARMADURAS" where there are some five hundred images of arms and (crappy Victorian?) armour. The swords are quite nice, even though I rarely take an interest in rapier-y artifacts.
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Gabriele Becattini





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PostPosted: Mon 27 Jul, 2009 4:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Kel, nice link, a lot of nice sword
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Feb, 2010 9:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are two more heraldic pommels, both from the Met in NY. The pictures suck because taking photos through glassis hard. Happy


 Attachment: 18.66 KB
pommel1.jpg
Dagger pommel

 Attachment: 19.1 KB
pommel2.jpg
Sword pommel

Happy

ChadA

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Gabriele Becattini





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PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb, 2010 11:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad, it is the bottom one the pommel of Peter of Dreux of Brittany?
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 22 Feb, 2010 4:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gabriele Becattini wrote:
Chad, it is the bottom one the pommel of Peter of Dreux of Brittany?


I'm not sure. I didn't get a pic of the info card.

Happy

ChadA

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