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Robert S. Haile





Joined: 16 Dec 2007

Posts: 126

PostPosted: Fri 19 Jun, 2009 11:17 pm    Post subject: Starting an early/mid 15th century kit         Reply with quote

Hello all,

I am considering beginning a historically accurate 15th century kit. I certainly cannot buy everything I'd like at once, but I can start to plan and save money. I'm 19 years old currently, and will be dealing with college bills for some time unfortunately. I'd like to arrange something with the flavor of a well equipped English Man at Arms in the latter quarter of the hundred years war. I'm posting here to gather some suggestions and check some of my plans and hopes for authenticity (I am generally well versed in when certain types of armor were in use, but not near as much so as some of the forumites here). I currently have some cheap arming clothes, and I learned the hard way from attempting to put together a lesser quality harness before that in order for the rig to truly fit comfortably and do its job, the arming clothes must fit perfectly, as they provide the base upon which the harness depends. Anyone know where to get some quality arming clothes at a fair price?

I currently plan on eventually purchasing an Armet with a typical sparrow beak visor and perhaps a wrapper (Example attatched) . My foremost question is whether or not the wearing of a short surcoat displaying a heraldic device is an acceptable addition to a kit of this era. Also, any recommendations on applicable accompanying plate armor or equipment would be most appreciated. Thanks guys.



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Felix R.




Location: Germany
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 2:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi, when looking for a kit matching the appearance of a later English Man in the hundred years war, this site is a must, providing you with almost everything you need: http://www.gothiceye.com/pictures.asp?categoryID=3&offset=45
Just browse to the 1400+ pages.
For the arming garments you will have to go custom. You can be lucky to find some working off the shelf, but I won´t bet on it. But you can get something real close to what you are looking for and have it fitted at your trusted local tailor.
Those people do some reasonably priced stuff: http://www.medieval-market.biz/
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Chuck Russell




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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 7:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think you need to look at your dates Happy Armets come in more in 1450s rather than 1400. fashion during the end of the hundred years wars still have men in basenits. also, which area are you wanting to portraight? this too has a lot to do with fashion and design of the armour.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 8:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chuck Russell wrote:
I think you need to look at your dates Happy Armets come in more in 1450s rather than 1400. fashion during the end of the hundred years wars still have men in basenits. also, which area are you wanting to portraight? this too has a lot to do with fashion and design of the armour.


Chuck,
The Hundred Years War lasted until 1453, so an armet is not out of the question for the very end of the war. Bascinets and especially great bascinets would perhaps be more appropriate. Some sallets date to 1425 to 1450 as well, making them viable options.

Happy

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Allan Senefelder
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Location: Upstate NY
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There are two armets from Rhodes that Thom Richardson and Walter Karcheski date to the 1430's in " Armour from Medieval Rhodes ".
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Chuck Russell




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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 9:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hmmmmm rereading his post. i thought he wanted something more turn of the century then middle. my bad.
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Robert S. Haile





Joined: 16 Dec 2007

Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 11:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Felix R: Thanks for the links to those sites, I'm sure they'll prove very useful. I've already skimmed the Knight section of Gothic eye and have seen some rather giant couters.

I apologize if I wasn't clear on what epoch I was going for, I was under the impression that there may possibly have been a few armets in use during the last "quarter" of the war. If I have to name a date, the early 1450's would probably be it I suppose. I know that surcoats decline heavily in popularity the later you get, but is it an impossibility that one may have been worn over the breastplate in the 1450's in combination with an armet?
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 11:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You might want to check with the period artwork, but it does seem somewhat unlikely, to be honest.
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Robert S. Haile





Joined: 16 Dec 2007

Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 11:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I gathered so much. I know that some effigies were portrayed without their surcoats, when surcoats were still in use, so I wasn't sure.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 11:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Surcoats might be too early for your kit, but a late jupon or a tabard might fit the bill.
Happy

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Robert S. Haile





Joined: 16 Dec 2007

Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 12:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Surcoats might be too early for your kit, but a late jupon or a tabard might fit the bill.


Aha! Jupon is probably the term I was looking for. I've got a lingering bad habit of using surcoat to refer to all heraldic garb worn over armor. A jupon seems to be exactly what I was hoping for, if it's applicable.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 12:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert S. Haile wrote:
Aha! Jupon is probably the term I was looking for. I've got a lingering bad habit of using surcoat to refer to all heraldic garb worn over armor. A jupon seems to be exactly what I was hoping for, if it's applicable.


A jupon is a tight fitting garment and seems to have dropped out of fashion by circa 1425. A tabard is more like a modern rain poncho in construction (though not in size) and was in use later in the 15th century.

I'd suggest you get a few good arms and armour books and check out as many effigies and brasses as possible. Looking at effigies and brasses, though, "all-whyte" (plain steel) seem to have been popular (and perhaps the norm) around 1450.

Happy

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Robert S. Haile





Joined: 16 Dec 2007

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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 2:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Perhaps I'd be better off building a 14th century kit around a helm similar to that of Sir William de Staunton. Speaking of which, does anyone know if MRL still makes their reproduction of that helm? And has anyone handled it before?


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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert S. Haile wrote:
Perhaps I'd be better off building a 14th century kit around a helm similar to that of Sir William de Staunton. Speaking of which, does anyone know if MRL still makes their reproduction of that helm? And has anyone handled it before?


MRL doesn't show that helm on their site at the moment. Some Windlass dealers may still have it in stock, though.

I have one, and it's a nice piece. Mine has no liner suspension, but it's about 10 years old. I've heard of more recent versions having a suspension in them. Mine is a little tight fitting over my ears, but I'm sure they vary piece to piece. And many folks have smaller heads than I do. Happy

Happy

ChadA

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Robert S. Haile





Joined: 16 Dec 2007

Posts: 126

PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 2:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Robert S. Haile wrote:
Perhaps I'd be better off building a 14th century kit around a helm similar to that of Sir William de Staunton. Speaking of which, does anyone know if MRL still makes their reproduction of that helm? And has anyone handled it before?


MRL doesn't show that helm on their site at the moment. Some Windlass dealers may still have it in stock, though.

I have one, and it's a nice piece. Mine has no liner suspension, but it's about 10 years old. I've heard of more recent versions having a suspension in them. Mine is a little tight fitting over my ears, but I'm sure they vary piece to piece. And many folks have smaller heads than I do. Happy


That is certainly an attractive helm. Thanks for the link, I've never been able to find detailed pictures of it before.

I just poked a prodded a few places and it seems that they have discontinued the helm. That's very unfortunate. I suppose my only hope there is going to be getting a custom helm made. How much did that helm run you, Chad?
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 2:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Robert S. Haile wrote:
That is certainly an attractive helm. Thanks for the link, I've never been able to find detailed pictures of it before.

I just poked a prodded a few places and it seems that they have discontinued the helm. That's very unfortunate. I suppose my only hope there is going to be getting a custom helm made. How much did that helm run you, Chad?


As of June 1997 (when I bought it) it was $199. Happy I've considered having the Mercenary's Tailor add a liner to it. It wouldn't be too expensive. I'll have to think about that again.

Feel free to check out all our Reviews and Collection Pages for many pictures of replica arms and armour.

Happy

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Maurizio D'Angelo




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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 6:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

armature dated 1450. If you are interested I have many other views.

Maurizio



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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sat 20 Jun, 2009 7:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Robert S. Haile wrote:
That is certainly an attractive helm. Thanks for the link, I've never been able to find detailed pictures of it before.

I just poked a prodded a few places and it seems that they have discontinued the helm. That's very unfortunate. I suppose my only hope there is going to be getting a custom helm made. How much did that helm run you, Chad?


As of June 1997 (when I bought it) it was $199. Happy I've considered having the Mercenary's Tailor add a liner to it. It wouldn't be too expensive. I'll have to think about that again.

Feel free to check out all our Reviews and Collection Pages for many pictures of replica arms and armour.


Mercenary's Tailor makes a liner for DIY installation: All you have to do is drill a few holes and rivet the liner in.

http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=91

Fairly easy to do as long as one is careful to position the holes properly and using a small hammer to set the rivets, I used a small sledge hammer as an anvil: An hours work and a little awkward getting the hammer inside the helm to hammer but I'm sure that someone doing this often could do it all in 10 minutes.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jun, 2009 7:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Mercenary's Tailor makes a liner for DIY installation: All you have to do is drill a few holes and rivet the liner in.

http://www.merctailor.com/catalog/product_inf...ucts_id=91

Fairly easy to do as long as one is careful to position the holes properly and using a small hammer to set the rivets, I used a small sledge hammer as an anvil: An hours work and a little awkward getting the hammer inside the helm to hammer but I'm sure that someone doing this often could do it all in 10 minutes.


I know. Happy

Happy

ChadA

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Zac Evans




Location: London
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PostPosted: Sun 21 Jun, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are open to different periods and want something a bit cheaper than mid 100 years war will probably be best. A good combination of plate, maille and fabric that would allow you to build a decent portrayal with less money than a 1450s portrayal.

http://www.man.poznan.pl/~ritter/Wieruszyce2006/index.html

There is a good site with lovely late 14th century armour. I'm planning a kit that looks a bit like this:



as an alternative to my war of the roses portrayal.
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