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Taylor Ellis

PostPosted: Tue 26 May, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject: Some musings on WMA and the UFC         Reply with quote

I apoligise in advance if this post isn't entirely relevent to this forum.

I'm not sure how many people who saw UFC 98, but basically it featured Lyoto Machida, a Shotokan Karate fighter (albeit one thoroughly versed in bjj, wrestling and muay thai) completely dismantle a previously undefeated wrestler/boxer. This isn't totally unprecedented (George St Pierre was initially a karate fighter after all), the thing is he used karate to dominate the fight.

The obvious thing that this brought home to me was what other traditional arts that have been discounted might actually offer. The big one in my mind isn't kung fu or hapkido or anything, but old school bare knuckle boxing. The bare knuckle boxers would fight horrendously long matches were the techniques revolved around controlling space and hitting without getting hit. Sounds a lot like what Machida was doing really.

As far as I know, modern boxing's evolution changed radically after grappling was banned and gloves were introduced. Now that grappling is back in and the gloves are much closer to bare knuckle than boxing ones, it stands to reason that this art should be looked at. In my opinion, anyway. Happy

Any other opinions?
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David E. Farrell

Location: Evanston, IL
Joined: 25 Jun 2007

Posts: 156

PostPosted: Tue 26 May, 2009 11:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is just a guess - but I imagine if it happens (people turning to old western pugilism), it will take a big-shot to do it (and make it work repeatedly) before you see it become anywhere near mainstream (i.e. in a UFC cage rather than a specialized or small competition).

From what little I have picked up, most (particularly new) MMA fighters tend to train in what has been shown to work under the ruleset they expect to use by someone higher up the ladder. It seems much less common for folks to to turn to 'new' arts - even if they aren't that much of a stretch from what they already know. But then again, it could also be simple ignorance of the existence of other arts or their applicability.

AKA: 'Sparky' (so I don't need to explain later Wink )

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J. Scott Moore

Joined: 25 Nov 2008

Posts: 77

PostPosted: Tue 26 May, 2009 11:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I personally have thought that for a long time. it's not just that it requires a tougher person to go for long fights, but because the fights were so long, the fighter HAD to have style. this other type, with the padded gloves that favors the hand is comfortable, but it lends to modern illusion in that you can come away from a serious fistfight without hurting your hand. also, the glove causes resistance in the swing, and spreads the force from impact, just as it was meant to do, but it also makes it easier for someone of lesser skill, and style to withstand a harder blow than they would bare-handed. that being said, the gloves realy are more of a safety measure, and while people have died boxing in them, they are still far more safe than getting hit bare handed. the sport would be far more dangerous, and more cohesive to actual life/death fighting, than sport sparring. I'm not trying to sound indecisive, I still like fistfighting, but the gloves are there for a reason, and while a part of me wants to see what fights were "really" like back in the old days, I know that is impossible for safety reasons. I do think, however, that the styles used ought to be ressurected, as I'm sure that they'd prove effective.

sorry for the ramble, I'm on about 1.5 hours of sleep, and MUCH caffeine.

"Whoever desires peace, let him prepare for war."
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