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Stephen Slade




Location: uk
Joined: 16 May 2009

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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 2:00 am    Post subject: can anyone give me an idea of date ??         Reply with quote

picked this up recently , its about 7 inches long and very rusted.


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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 2:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

it looks like a medieval dagger coupled to a fancy nineteenth century hilt (cast iron?). How could it be it seems a mistery. Ebay?
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Stephen Slade




Location: uk
Joined: 16 May 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 2:04 am    Post subject: blade         Reply with quote

the rusty blade , whole thing has been stabilised but the cross guard seems in much better condition ? seems original to the piece though.


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Bruno Giordan





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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 2:07 am    Post subject: Re: blade         Reply with quote

Stephen Slade wrote:
the rusty blade , whole thing has been stabilised but the cross guard seems in much better condition ? seems original to the piece though.


That is quite a riddle. The material of the blade is quite old given teh way it has decayed exposing a fibrous matetr. The hilt is still in perfect shape, which couldn't be after a long period of burial, which is the obvious responsible for the blade's typical decay.

is teh hilt inserted or what? How could one insert a hilt through the forked tang??

EDITED

At the crossguard teh tang is uniformly covered by some modern substance. Perhaps it was broken there and that is why somebody could put a more modern hilt in place. The other explanation is that the hilt is original to the blade. Which just doesn't make sense stylistically and practically, being too big for such a short blade.
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Stephen Slade




Location: uk
Joined: 16 May 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 2:11 am    Post subject: it came from .......         Reply with quote

A small auction house , not expensive , bought to hang on the wall of the cottage. I thought the crossguard was later but it doesn't show signs of being added , see pics


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Bruno Giordan





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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 2:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is a garyush substance under and over the cross, where it meets the blade, and on the tang/blade area around. I suspect a rupture. It would be impossible to couple a cross otherwise. Otherwise, how could such a cross have survived intact the conditions that brought the blade almost to fragmentation? Glad to see that you haven't paid much. I think the blade is thirteenth century.

The cross must be cast, you cannot have that detail of foliage in recessed areas by filing.
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Stephen Slade




Location: uk
Joined: 16 May 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 2:54 am    Post subject: many thanks         Reply with quote

It was only a buy to decorate the wall so a blade that age will look good on the beams Big Grin

Last edited by Stephen Slade on Sun 17 May, 2009 2:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 3:53 am    Post subject: Re: many thanks         Reply with quote

Stephen Slade wrote:
It was only a 50 buy to decorate the wall so a blade that age will look good on the beams Big Grin


My guess is that the blade is worth some further research. You might have something more than expected in terms of age.
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Sean Flynt
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Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 5:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Could have been cast around the tang.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Hanns Wiechman




Location: Minneapolis, MN
Joined: 17 Jun 2007

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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 6:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It looks like the blade and tang are covered in tar.
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Stephen Slade




Location: uk
Joined: 16 May 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 7:18 am    Post subject: re blade covering         Reply with quote

When I used to go metal detecting some people painted their finds to stop further decay, it looks like the same on this blade.
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D. Austin
Industry Professional



Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 20 Sep 2007

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PostPosted: Sat 16 May, 2009 4:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quite a fascinating piece. I'm guessing there's a really simple answer out there somewhere. I do like the design on the cross guard actually, although it does seem rather 19th century, and would perhaps suit a longer blade.

Bruno Giordan wrote:
how could such a cross have survived intact the conditions that brought the blade almost to fragmentation?


The cross appears from the photos to be made of some kind of copper alloy. It looks to me to have a slightly green patina. Copper alloys could easily hold up better than steel in these conditions.
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Stephen Slade




Location: uk
Joined: 16 May 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun 17 May, 2009 2:25 am    Post subject: Next Move ??         Reply with quote

Hi guys
If I wanted to find out more about this dagger where would I send it and would it cost much ? Can anyone suggest an expert or is it a museum job and wait a year for an opinion ??
I think your comment about a copper alloy may be the answer to this crossguard question. It would have been impressive originally with a polished copper crossguard and shining blade. Maybe a wealthy ladies item ?
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Sun 17 May, 2009 1:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Next Move ??         Reply with quote

Stephen Slade wrote:
Hi guys
If I wanted to find out more about this dagger where would I send it and would it cost much ? Can anyone suggest an expert or is it a museum job and wait a year for an opinion ??
I think your comment about a copper alloy may be the answer to this crossguard question. It would have been impressive originally with a polished copper crossguard and shining blade. Maybe a wealthy ladies item ?


It depends on where you live. I would send a pic to Royal Armouries for a start, just to have an idea of wether further investigation is worthwile.

They should at least give some stylistical evaluation for free. Also the Klingenmuseum of Solingen would be another ideal place for investigting such matter.
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Stephen Slade




Location: uk
Joined: 16 May 2009

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun 17 May, 2009 1:49 pm    Post subject: Armouries         Reply with quote

Didn't think of that !!!! I only live 40 miles away from Leeds , thanks for that. Its a fabulous place to visit , I went a couple of months ago
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