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Carlo Arellano





Joined: 21 Oct 2007

Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 8:59 am    Post subject: Valiant Armoury Atrim I-Beam Practice Sword         Reply with quote

Does anyone use them, and how do they perform. What are the blades like in terms of flexibility and stiffness?

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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
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PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 11:42 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello,
Maybe not the best person to judge.
But the fuller it seems to me too C.N.C. machines.
Regards
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 11:46 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

They are practice swords, so one can debate whether a historical look is even important in a practice sword. Happy
Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
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PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 11:54 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello Chad,
After the criticism received history, I must say very constructive, from now on, only historical swords.
Wink
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Carlo Arellano





Joined: 21 Oct 2007

Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 11:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am interested only in performance, I already have historically accurate trainers and I'm simply looking for entry level blades for those new to WMA.
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Maurizio D'Angelo




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PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Carlo, it was not for you, of course free to choose.
It was just a thought between me and Chad.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Maurizio D'Angelo wrote:
Carlo, it was not for you, of course free to choose.
It was just a thought between me and Chad.


Maurizio,
If you're referring to our private conversation about a different line of swords, then no one will will have any idea what you're talking about.

I still think that these are not meant to look historical. They are meant to stand up to repeated pounding and compromise on looks to gain durability.

Happy

ChadA

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Maurizio D'Angelo




Location: Italy
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PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fortunately, I said that I was not the right person to judge, but now I understand. Blush
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Bill Tsafa




Location: Brooklyn, NY
Joined: 20 May 2004

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PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 1:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have handled and spared with one of the original proto-types from A-Trim. I had present both the hand and half version and the single-handed version. The I-beam blunts felt no different then real swords and I liked them very much. I am glad to see that they have gone into production. My only reservation with the proto-types was that they were so stiff that one of them actually punctured through the suede leather that was holding my Coat of plates together. This stiffness may be bad or good depending on how close a shave you like when you play. It is worth finding out about the stiffness in current production models. There may also be enough variation so you can get exactly what you want.
No athlete/youth can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows: he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack... then he will be ready for battle.
Roger of Hoveden, 1174-1201
www.poconoshooting.com
www.poconogym.com
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 11:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've handled these on a few occasions, and had actually considered picking one up from KoA in the near future.

The only real problem I see (other than the stiffness mentioned above) is that the edge corners are a little too fine and should be rounded. The ones I have seen all seem to have taken a fair amount of edge damage that could be prevented if you simply filed them down a little.

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Sun 10 May, 2009 5:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JE Sarge wrote:
I've handled these on a few occasions, and had actually considered picking one up from KoA in the near future.

The only real problem I see (other than the stiffness mentioned above) is that the edge corners are a little too fine and should be rounded. The ones I have seen all seem to have taken a fair amount of edge damage that could be prevented if you simply filed them down a little.


Saw one today and the edges are really REALLY thick but taper somewhat with distal taper near the point. I didn't pick it up or flex it to really judge it's qualities or safety i.e. excess rigidity if any ?

The only thing that I did notice that I would change would be to very much round the edges because even though they seem like 1/8" at least in thickness they were very flat and with a sharp 90% corner ! Well, maybe not sharp but far from rounded that they might pick up some notching on impact because of the corners.

If nicely rounded they would be very safe in controlled un-armoured sparring or maybe even safe for almost full contact minimal pulling of blows if armoured with a heavy gambison.

Might be able to have another look at one as it's at a local " Medieval " store and report back on it after handling it a bit more.

Since I have an Albion maestro blunt I don't really need a need training sword at the moment, but if I was I would seriously consider buying one but it would get a little attention on a slack grinding belt to round out those edges or at least a few passes with a file or diamond hone: The square edges wouldn't be a deal breaker for me as I could easily fix it to my prefered rounded edge as a DIY project, but makes one wonder why such an obvious design " flaw " wasn't noticed and fixed ??? Unless there was a specific reason to leave the edges square ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Sun 10 May, 2009 3:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yeah, those edges will cut you - they pretty much have to be filed. I've got a pair of gauntlets with some wicked cuts in the palm from just grappeling/grabbing my opponent's I-Beam during some testing I did a couple of weeks back.

I still might order one of these, but to be honest if it were my one sparring sword - I'd might save a little money and go for the A&A Zohgo - it's the most-durable and safest rebated blade I've seen yet. Of course, it's not pretty, but it does not take edge damage nearly to the extent as other rebated swords do. Big Grin

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Carlo Arellano





Joined: 21 Oct 2007

Posts: 52

PostPosted: Sun 10 May, 2009 9:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JE Sarge wrote:
Yeah, those edges will cut you - they pretty much have to be filed. I've got a pair of gauntlets with some wicked cuts in the palm from just grappeling/grabbing my opponent's I-Beam during some testing I did a couple of weeks back.

I still might order one of these, but to be honest if it were my one sparring sword - I'd might save a little money and go for the A&A Zohgo - it's the most-durable and safest rebated blade I've seen yet. Of course, it's not pretty, but it does not take edge damage nearly to the extent as other rebated swords do. Big Grin


I have a custom A&A fechterspiel on it's way with a more pronounced waisted grip and side rings, I was just looking for beaters for the new guys to start drilling with until they are truly ready to commit.
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Sun 10 May, 2009 11:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Your best cost-effective bet would just be Hanwei Practical Hand and a Halves. If you can find someone in WMA to wholesale these to you, you would only pay $60-$65 a piece for them. I['ve found that with proper care, they can last for a few years (if you file down the edges, replace the grip with hemp cord, and tighten the peen occassionaly.)

I mean, one I-Beam or three Hanweis - from the WMA standpoint, I'd have to chose the latter. There are things about the I-Beam that I like, but I don't like it that much! Big Grin

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Bill Tsafa




Location: Brooklyn, NY
Joined: 20 May 2004

Posts: 599

PostPosted: Mon 11 May, 2009 6:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JE Sarge wrote:
Your best cost-effective bet would just be Hanwei Practical Hand and a Halves. If you can find someone in WMA to wholesale these to you, you would only pay $60-$65 a piece for them.


I agree with this. I have both the Single handed knightly and hand & half version. These are cost effective and very adequate for basic drilling. For better or for worse, they are just as stiff as the I-beams.

No athlete/youth can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows: he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack... then he will be ready for battle.
Roger of Hoveden, 1174-1201
www.poconoshooting.com
www.poconogym.com
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Thu 28 May, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I went ahead and ordered a new ATrim I-Beam from KoA the other day for myself. It arrived today just before I left for work. If you are considering ordering one, wait...here is why...

When I unpacked my I-Beam, I found a couple issues with it that makes me not such a happy camper.

The first issue is that out of the box, the blade has a obvious convex set to it - a bend right at mid-blade that puts the blade out of alignment with with guard. Over the length of the sword, this set is probably 1/2 of an inch - so its a pretty big deal. I don't see how this made it past QC.

The second issue is that the grip was wrapped pretty badly - the seam overlaps and sticks up 1/16" of an inch and there are loose bulges at each riser where the glue did not adhere the leather to the underlying cord. Not such a big deal, but it would be for someone who did not have the resources to replace the grip leather.

I have sent a letter to KoA asking for a replacement I-Beam. The grip I could fix, the blade is a deal breaker though.

Just tossing this out there in case anyong was still thinking about buying one of these in the near future. I am sure that this is just an instance of a bad egg, but I'd wait until I got this sorted out to see what happens.

EDIT: Sonny from Valiant contacted me about getting me a replacement for the sword in question. +1 for his customer service effort. I'll post a small review when the replacement gets here. Happy

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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