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Forum Index > Historical Arms Talk > Del Tin -DT5143 or Albion 13th Century Great Sword? Reply to topic
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Mike West




Location: North Carolina
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Mon 04 May, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Del Tin -DT5143 or Albion 13th Century Great Sword?         Reply with quote

I've read the onsite review of the Albion sword, but was wondering if anyone had any experience with the DT5143.

I'm looking for an unsharpened sword for individual practice and, some pell work. Both swords seem to be similiar. The DT is much less expensive and, the construction quality may be similiar. I've handled a bent version of the DT and, it seemed to be a very maneuverable and, well balanced sword. I've never held an Albion.

Does anyone have any experience with both swords?

Thank you.
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
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PostPosted: Mon 04 May, 2009 10:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You also might want to consider the Hanwei/Tinker longsword blunt - http://kultofathena.com/product~item~SH2395.htm - though blunt isn't quite the same thing as unsharpened.

Many are very pleased with it - http://www.fioredeiliberi.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10564
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 06 May, 2009 6:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Cellini wrote:
The Deltin swords are still hammered out using traditional techniques but are still fished on a belt sander similar to the Albionís, so there are some noticeable indicators that they are hand made.


From our profile of Del Tin Armi Antiche:

Quote:
To make the blades, Del Tin uses the method of stock-removal, where lengths of spring steel are ground to the right shape.


That article was based off an interview with Fulvio Del Tin sometime in the last 10 years. The fittings are mostly cast, I believe.

So they may not use a CNC machine, but I don't think they hammer out much these days. Happy

Happy

ChadA

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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Wed 06 May, 2009 7:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Del Tin can be ordered with thicker edge for sparring but if you do just solo practice and pell, It's not necessary and DT standard edge will be ok.
Edit: I have DT2142 and 2130, both sharpened, I use them for cutting and I'm very satisfied. Their hilts get loose occasionally but that is not difficult to fix.
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Wed 06 May, 2009 12:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'll speak from the practical side here...

I am a huge Del Tin fan...they make a great quality beater. They are a little heavier than they should be, but they can take a licking and keep on ticking. Also, they have a good authentic feel when you grab them. We use them frequently in WMA sparring and I've not seen one broken or damaged severely yet. At their price, you can add a few of them to your collection - or even have one blunted and have the exact same one sharpened so that you are training/sparring and cutting with the exact same sword.

On the Albion side, I personally think that they are a little too expensive/collectable to do too much cutting with/practical use with - unless you don't mind risking damage to a $1000 sword (because over a given enough time, you are going to damage ANY sword if you are using it). I look at these from more of a collector's standpoint than for actual use; but this is merely my personal preference.

I really like the Albion training line (the Lichtenhauer specifically), which work fine - so in my selecting, I'd definately add the Maestro line to my consideration - which ends up being closer to the Del Tin price point. I've trained a bit with it, and there is nothng that feels quite as good as it does.

For cutting, I prefer Windlass stuff because its inexpensive, fairly good quality (on select models), and generally durable. If I chip the edge on a Windlass, I don't really care - I can repair it or just buy another one. Now, If I chipped the edge or bent the tip on my Albion, I'd have a freakin' cow...

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Roger Hooper




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PostPosted: Wed 06 May, 2009 1:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One of the past criticisms of Del Tins was that the hilt would loosen up after some use and you would have to repeen the pommel -- kind of a nuisance, but not the end of the world. I wonder if Del Tin has improved that aspect, and now sells a sword with a hilt that stays tight under reasonable cutting, etc.
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Mike West




Location: North Carolina
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed 06 May, 2009 3:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

David Cellini wrote:
Hi Mike, I am new to this forum but a long time practitioner of the Longsword. Iíve have an older model DT5143, bought over twenty years or so ago. I do own several Albion Longswords and two of their Maestro line trainers. Iíve never actually used any of my Deltin swords for practice or cutting but have done some light target cutting with my Albion Mercenary, Regent and Munich. There is an authentic feel I just love from the Deltin swords, like holding a real sword from a museum or something (swinging it around my backyard). The Albion swords are superior as far as overall quality, balance and handling characteristics. They also feature an almost too sharp edge right out of the box, which has also been argued to be not a tough enough edge when compared to other makers or high quality swords. The Trainers from Albion are absolutely awesome; I use mine twice a week at class. They run a little more expensive than the Hanwei blunts. Iíve had my eye on one of those Tinkers though. Anyway, the quality offered by Albion is unmatched (unless you go full out custom) but for production piece they are beautiful. From a historical standpoint the Albion sword construction methods are modern, their swords are milled on a CNC milling machine then fine sanded on a belt sander, but the results are an almost perfect sword. The Deltin swords are still hammered out using traditional techniques but are still fished on a belt sander similar to the Albionís, so there are some noticeable indicators that they are hand made. I have not heard of any Deltin trainers, though their edges do come unsharpened. As far as choosing a good sword for practice you canít go wrong with the Albion Maestro line swords. I donít know if I was able to answer your question, I have a tendency to ramble on and on. Hope this helpsÖ?

-David




Thanks, that was helpful. I've thought about getting one of Arms and Armor's practice swords, but would like a real, unsharpened sword. As I had mentioned in a post last year I purchased a Del Tin 5143 from ebay, but it arrived in a damaged box and, the last third of the blade close to the tip was bent about 6 degrees off of center. I'm still waiting on UPS to pay the insurance and, they've agreed that it was their fault. The sword is at the sellers and, once everything is paid for, he'll send it back to me, unless UPS takes it. I'll probably contact Eddie Floyd to see if the blade can be bent back.
If it cannot, I'll be back looking for a replacement longsword. SInce that sword is about $350.00 at K.of A., I'll likely get that.

The one thing that impressed me about the 5143 was that it felt light and, well-balanced, despite weighing apparently close to 4 pounds. I've never held an Albion and, their great sword seemed to be of the same type.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 06 May, 2009 5:46 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JE Sarge wrote:
They are a little heavier than they should be, but they can take a licking and keep on ticking. Also, they have a good authentic feel when you grab them.


Del Tins can be too heavy. Some are spot-on. A few are actually under the weight of the original they're based on. It varies by model.

Beware the blanket generalization.... Happy

Happy

ChadA

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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

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PostPosted: Thu 07 May, 2009 2:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
David Cellini wrote:
The Deltin swords are still hammered out using traditional techniques but are still fished on a belt sander similar to the Albionís, so there are some noticeable indicators that they are hand made.


From our profile of Del Tin Armi Antiche:

Quote:
To make the blades, Del Tin uses the method of stock-removal, where lengths of spring steel are ground to the right shape.


That article was based off an interview with Fulvio Del Tin sometime in the last 10 years. The fittings are mostly cast, I believe.

So they may not use a CNC machine, but I don't think they hammer out much these days. Happy


The fittings' waxes are from a top class brescian artisan.

Yes, the blades are made by stock removal as people who have seen teh shop (Mr. Deltin seems to be rather open in this) have confirmed it.

If they were forged the blades wouldn't be in that price range, also operating forges is sometimes difficult under local regulations in Italy.
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Kevin Reeds




Location: Maryland USA
Joined: 07 May 2009

Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu 07 May, 2009 7:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
David Cellini wrote:
The Deltin swords are still hammered out using traditional techniques but are still fished on a belt sander similar to the Albionís, so there are some noticeable indicators that they are hand made.


From our profile of Del Tin Armi Antiche:

Quote:
To make the blades, Del Tin uses the method of stock-removal, where lengths of spring steel are ground to the right shape.


That article was based off an interview with Fulvio Del Tin sometime in the last 10 years. The fittings are mostly cast, I believe.

So they may not use a CNC machine, but I don't think they hammer out much these days. Happy




Hi Chad, Hi David: David, Fancy to meet you here.... Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud ! See you at work tomorrow!

Just to clarify a point David made. Iíve handled his Deltin swords and I think what he was saying (David, correct me if I am wrong) that some of the older model Deltin blades showed a little more evidence of being hand made. Some appear to have hammered in blood fullers and forged guards while other show casting marks. David is lucky enough to own several very old Silvano made Deltinís from the early days. I guess being a Cellini has its perks!

David where did your original posts go, I see your name but nothing else?? I think you made him mad! Wink He has no patience with people. Happy I would listen to David he knows his stuff, heís been at it for a long time and doesnít usually speak up unless he has something of value to add, not to mention heís is one of the best I ever seen with a Longsword! (ps. you owe me 20 bucks for the props Laughing Out Loud Laughing Out Loud ) Glad you turned me onto this forum, so much to read!! :

David, see you in the AM, I hope your wife feels better, tell her I said hello.

"You bring a pen to a sword fight...?!?"
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Mike West




Location: North Carolina
Joined: 06 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat 09 May, 2009 8:35 am    Post subject: #187 Fechtbuch Sword!         Reply with quote

While going through the reviews on this site, I came upon Bill Grandy's review of the #187 Fechtbuch Sword from Arms & Armor. That looks to be what I'm looking for and, it's something I wouldn't mind taking out into the back yard during the day to practice with. I don't like taking real swords out for that type of thing as it may attract unwanted attention of various kinds.

The grip is a full 8" and, the door knob like pommel adds to the useful length. The handle grips on the above mentioned Del Tin and, Albion have shorter grips and, the wheel pommels aren't as comfortable to grab on to.
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Jimi Edmonds




Location: Dunedin, New Zealand
Joined: 25 May 2009
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PostPosted: Wed 05 Aug, 2009 12:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have an Albion maestro Liechtenauer, and its an awesome training tool, I have used it pretty much evey day in solo drill since I have had it and put it to the pell. Over the last few months it just seems to get lighter and lighter and I can control it quite well single handed in both left and right hands. This sword should last me a very long time!..
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William Goodwin




Location: Roanoke,Va
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PostPosted: Wed 05 Aug, 2009 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I adore my Del-Tin (5155) it's simply a beautiful piece.

Too, I recently purchased another blunt training sword - Valiant Armory / ATrim I-Beam, which I've found to be a
excellent value and wonderful longsword training tool.

Roanoke Sword Guilde

roanokeswordguilde@live.com
"I was born for this" - Joan of Arc
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