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Chuck Russell




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PostPosted: Wed 22 Apr, 2009 12:58 pm    Post subject: help with a 3rd century BC sword         Reply with quote

i am looking for some good information on the construction of a 3rd century BC sword. i know of the Delos and Gladius hispaniensis blades but there not all there if I'm not mistaken. is the deepeeka version the best out there? : http://www.imperiumancientarmory.com/Delos%20Sword.html as far as true representation of this time frame?
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Wed 22 Apr, 2009 2:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am not sure if you intended to get feedback exclusively on straight spatha like forms specific to 3rd to 2nd century B.C., or all styles of combat blades that were around in Western Europe at that time. For what its worth;

Swords very roughly similar in form to a falcata have been found in regions near Italy (Etruscan and Celtic origins), and dated to between 5th and 2nd century B.C.. These seem to still be around later and in other locations even into Merovingian era. (A research article about one of the shape I am thinking of is featured several times within our forum posts as an example of Merovingian era metallurgy.) The straight spatha may have been popular, but I have the impression that varying length knives (some mentions of Gauls with knives occur in Roman conquest if I remember it right) and other "sword like" forms of weapons also existed for a lengthy span of many centuries including your specified period.

Germanic and Celtic spatha forms also exist at this time. Patrick Barta's catalogue # 134 is based on a Celtic sword near this era. http://www.templ.net/english/weapons-antiquit...#134-sword

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David Wilson




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PostPosted: Wed 22 Apr, 2009 6:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The Deepeeka Delos is a fair representation of a Gladius Hispaniensis. The sword itself is not bad looking, but it's quite blade-heavy and clunky to handle.

There's another option on the horizon, probably a lot better than the Deepeeka and worth waiting for: The Valiant Armory Signature Edition "Actium", from the line of swords designed by Christian Fletcher and Angus Trim. They don't say right on the site that it's an Hispaniensis, but it is. Check it out: http://www.valiant-armoury.com/signature.php
(Christian Fletcher's site has better pics: http://www.christianfletcher.com/Christian_Fletcher/Welcome.html

Other than that, if you're just looking for swords that would have been arund in the 3rd century BC, well, there are the Celtic "La Tene" era long swords, Iberian falcatas, and Greek-style "xiphos" type swords.

David K. Wilson, Jr.
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Marcos Cantu





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PostPosted: Wed 22 Apr, 2009 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i always thought that the gladius hispaniensis was a longish (longer than the later roman gladius) wasp-waisted sword. no?



edit: sorry, i just read the delos description where it said it was slightly wasp-waisted. its not easy to see in the picture...
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Location: Netherlands
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Apr, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The classic gladius didn't exist yet in the 3rd century B.C. The kind of sword around that time depends highly on location, so what location are you looking for? Northern Europe had the typical long La Tene swords. In scandinavia, single edged swords were most common. For southern Europe, here's a nice overview:


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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

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PostPosted: Thu 23 Apr, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Avete!

From his threads on RAT, I'm assuming he means Roman swords specifically. Deepeeka's Delos sword isn't a bad hispaniensis, but much of it is not really based on the actual Delos sword. The original pommel was probably spherical with a radial pattern of iron nails, either as studs around the middle or maybe curving down over the top. So probably not a lobed pommel. The original scabbard has TWO rings, as is typical of earlier hispaniensis scabbards, not four. So that detail puts it in the late first century BC. But the hilt is fine for 3rd century BC, I'd say, so maybe just a little modification to the scabbard and you'd be all set.

The "Actium" sword looks very nice, but is also a rather late hispaniensis from what I can tell. Not sure where they got the idea for fullers--never seen those on a Roman sword before the third century AD.

I think the big question here is what sort of swords were used in Italy before the hispaniensis was introduced. Derivations of the Classic Greek hoplite sword, sure, but derived how? Seems to be a pretty obscure era!

Valete,

Matthew
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Ted Parolari




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Thu 23 Apr, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does anyone know when the Actium will be available?
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