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Roger Hartley




Location: UK
Joined: 05 Apr 2009

Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue 07 Apr, 2009 3:09 am    Post subject: Black Prince scabbard         Reply with quote

Hello
I am currently making miniatures of famous swords.
Does anyone know of a comprehensive description of the Black princes scabbard.
Photos I have seen don't seem to give much away!
Regards
Roger
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Tue 07 Apr, 2009 3:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think there's much left of the original scabbard. From what is there, it doesn't look to be anything particularly special: wood core, black leather, simple chape. You can see the original and the reproduction found at the Canterbury Cathedral in our Black Prince Man of War article.
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Al Muckart




Location: NZ
Joined: 27 Dec 2005

Posts: 309

PostPosted: Tue 07 Apr, 2009 4:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have at home the booklet which accompanied the release of the reconstructions when they were done many years ago. In there is a fairly comprehensive description of the scabbard. I have no idea where you'd find a copy of it these days but I'll try and remember to post the description. I'm pretty busy so if you haven't heard from me in a few days PM me with a reminder.
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Al Muckart




Location: NZ
Joined: 27 Dec 2005

Posts: 309

PostPosted: Wed 08 Apr, 2009 3:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok, the booklet I have is entitled

The Time of Edward the Black Prince

Replicas of His Achievements

Knights of the Garger,
Past and Present


By Mills, Dorothy and Sir James Mann

Published by The Friends of Canterbury Cathedral and printed by J.A Jennings, Ltd., Canterbury. November 1956. Reprinted May 1959.

The book originally cost two shillings and sixpence. It can be had from abebooks from between 10 and 20 dollars and may even still be in print, I don't know.

A quote from the section of the book regarding the scabbard is below. This has been transcribed by hand so any errors are mine.

Quote:

The Sword Scabbard
The surviving fragment of the sword scabbard is of leather painted red and retaining thirty-one of the embossed square studs of gilt brass placed in line down the middle of the outer side. A lath of thin wood has now been placed inside to keep it in shape and in one piece.

The restored copy was made from leather dyed red, as this was considered more durable, and sewn along the inner side over a wooden mandril, copied in shape and length from the case of the bronze sword on the effigy of the Black Prince, which was kindly lent for the purpose by Mr. Claude Falkiner.

As on the Original, the decorative studs were attached to a thin sliver of leather stuckd down on the outer surface of the scabbard.

As no chape or locket sruvived, simplified versions of the silver ones on the contemporary sword found near Westminster Bridge in 1754 (the property of the United Services Institute and now lent to the London Museum) were made in copper and gilded. To enable the finished scabbard to keep its shape, the wooden mandril was left inside.


A picture of the Westminster Sword and its scabbard fittings on a reproduction core can be seen at http://www.greydragon.org/trips/Jersey%20Reve...ord072.jpg

Interestingly, while the westminster sword has two lockets, only the top locket is on the reproduced black prince sword.

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Al.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 08 Apr, 2009 6:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

One thing to keep in mind is that the sword on the effigy is quite different from the one Oakeshott identified as belonging to the Black Prince. Oakeshott's ID was based on, among other things, the fact that the formerly-lost sword fit the remains of the scabbard.

I think the scabbards are different too.

Happy

ChadA

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Matt Easton




Location: Surrey, UK.
Joined: 30 Jun 2004

Posts: 239

PostPosted: Wed 08 Apr, 2009 8:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The gauntlets, jupon and helm are different as well.
Which raises all sorts of interesting questions about how effigies were put together.
Matt

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