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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr, 2009 3:48 am    Post subject: Norwegian mace head, 13th/14th c (with an attitude)         Reply with quote

Thought I'd share this one. It's a favorite of mine, and I defenitely want one.


Does anyone have other examples of this type of mace?

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr, 2009 3:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is Great!

Where is it kept?
Oldsaksamlingen Oslo?

I´ve seen nothing like it. Only the normal geometric, or knobbly ones.
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr, 2009 4:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is found in Bergen, but I belive it is currently at Kulturhistorisk Museum in Oslo. (though I'm not sure)
"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Hendrik De Coster




Location: Belgium
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr, 2009 1:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i find it quite sadistic




sadistic in a lovely way!
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Johan S. Moen




Location: Kristiansand, Norway
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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr, 2009 2:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If it is at the KHM in Oslo, I think it is probably in storage somewhere. At least I've never seen it on display. If it was found after 1905, it is probably in Bergen and not in Oslo.

Johan Schubert Moen
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Bjorn Hagstrom




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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr, 2009 10:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, I will add that to my future project list! I have been meaning to do some casting work later this year anyway. I do not see that as unreasonable to sculpt and make a lost-wax cast of..
There is nothing quite as sad as a one man conga-line...
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Reinier van Noort





Joined: 13 Dec 2006

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PostPosted: Thu 02 Apr, 2009 11:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

@ Elling. That's a great mace head indeed. It looks nicely intimidating. Should give some fun bruises as well (if you get hit and are lucky!)

@ Bjorn. Good plan! If you keep lists, please put me on the "interested" list (assuming you intend to make more than one copy).

School voor Historische Schermkunsten

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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Tue 11 Aug, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ugly little B*****d that it is, it does truly intrigue me.

Does anybody know if the hole is right through or is the socket blind?

Any thoughts/knowledge would be appreciated.

Tod

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Martin Francis




Location: Northumberland, UK
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Aug, 2009 9:12 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is an reproduction photo, (either very grainy or bad moire from a copy halftone illustration) of this little beastie on page 22 of the 2003 edition of the Osprey "Men-at-Arms" book, Medieval Scandinavian Armies (1) by David Nicole & David Lindholm with illustrations by Angus McBride.

Unfortunately it's the same angle as the posted illustration so it doesn't really answer Tod's query. Noted as being from a "private collection". Misattribution or more than 1 extant example out "in the wild" I could't say.

Martin
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Wed 12 Aug, 2009 10:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Martin,

You know whats coming don't you?

Tod

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Martin Francis




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PostPosted: Thu 13 Aug, 2009 12:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tod

Well based on the history of our friendship, I can guess.......

Scanning makes the Moire pattern worse, I'll see what else I can get hold of on it. For what its's worth, my feeling is that the socket is blind.

Martin
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009 5:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The macehead lies in the colection of Bryggens Museum, in Bergen.
And I've got a date to see it next week....
though bringing a camera, tape measure and scales to a date might sound a bit rude... Worried
Wink

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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Audun Refsahl




Location: Norway
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009 8:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

you shouldn't let that stop you, Elling, this is no time to be shy!
just bacon...
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Jean Henri Chandler




Location: New Orleans
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Can't wait to see photos, I have been intrigued by this one for a long time.

Any info as to the date of the find?

J

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Paul Hansen




Location: The Netherlands
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009 9:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a scan from the Ospey book mentioned above. I hope it helps a bit...

Nice piece at any rate. But this one looks a bit different than the sketch Elling posted. Maybe these are two different examples?



 Attachment: 212.52 KB
macehead.jpg

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Jeff A. Arbogast





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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Norwegian mace head, 13th/14th c (with an attitude)         Reply with quote

Elling Polden wrote:
Thought I'd share this one. It's a favorite of mine, and I defenitely want one.


Does anyone have other examples of this type of mace?


Am I the only one who thinks it looks like Bart Simpson?

A man's nose is his castle-and his finger is a mighty sword that he may wield UNHINDERED!
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug, 2009 2:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for keeping this thread alive, because I love this very very ugly thing.

Quote:
Elling Polden wrote The macehead lies in the colection of Bryggens Museum, in Bergen.
And I've got a date to see it next week....
though bringing a camera, tape measure and scales to a date might sound a bit rude...


Any more information would be very useful as it is always hard trying to work just from a single picture and I for one will look forward to your thougts and any pictures and measurements you may be able to provide.

I suspect the two pictures are the same object.

Tod

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Elling Polden




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PostPosted: Wed 26 Aug, 2009 6:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I went to the museum yesterday, and had a quite pleasant meeting with Mr Ugly, and his more warlike cousin, Big Spike.

The specs are as follows

MA323, AkA "Mr. Ugly"
Weigth: 402 g
Heigth; 56mm
internal dim top; 2,7
internal dim bottom: 33
Greatest external dim; 64mm
Wall thickness: ca 5-7 mm
Spike length: ca 10-13mm

b7550, AkA "Big Spike"
Weigth: 600
Heigth;89mm
int dim top: 24mm
int dim bottom: 30mm
Wall thichness ca 4 mm
Greatest external Dim: 89mm
Spike length: 25mm

If anybody wants higer res photos, send me a PM or Mail.



 Attachment: 158.36 KB
Maces.jpg
The two maces kept at Bryggens Museum. Note the smiliar ornamentation.

 Attachment: 198.98 KB
Mr Ugly [ Download ]

 Attachment: 198.06 KB
[ Download ]

 Attachment: 197.53 KB
[ Download ]

 Attachment: 199.09 KB
[ Download ]

 Attachment: 197.77 KB
Big Spike [ Download ]

"this [fight] looks curious, almost like a game. See, they are looking around them before they fall, to find a dry spot to fall on, or they are falling on their shields. Can you see blood on their cloths and weapons? No. This must be trickery."
-Reidar Sendeman, from King Sverre's Saga, 1201
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J.W. Salyards





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PostPosted: Wed 26 Aug, 2009 9:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That's fantastic! Thanks for including the photos and specs of both pieces.
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Leo Todeschini
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PostPosted: Fri 28 Aug, 2009 1:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks so much for this Elling,

Mr ugly is actually quite different to the drawing that was first shown. I think the drawing artist tried to imagine a little of what Mr Ugly once was or should have been and 'filled in the gaps' a little with a little licence.

That stats are also great as mass weapons are actually rather hard to weight, in the sense that a mace with a 80g head feels light but great and controllable and one with a 500g head feels heavy and sluggish but you wouldn't want to get hit by it. Instinct teels you to make them heavy, feel tells you to make them light and the result is your head is confused. Anyway, nice to know where this one is.

The through hole was unexpected for me as aesthetically I think it works better as a blind hole, but I guess when it is coming at your face at 100 Kmh aesthetics are not in the forefront of your thoughts; makes it easier to mount though.

The other unexpected thing were the spikes; for me I would expect the anthropromorphic theme to run from the face through the rest of the piece and was not expecting it to be geometric at all.

Well done to whoever made the original and thanks to Elling.

Tod

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