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Michael Pikula
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Location: Madison, WI
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar, 2009 3:49 pm    Post subject: Are you in the market for a Spear?         Reply with quote

I have worked through the forging process to produce spear heads and I have come up with a good way to forge spear heads from a solid piece of steel with no welding involved. Since the socket and transition are the hard part, and the blade is relatively straight forward, the blade can just as easily be made as a throwing spear, or a hunting spear. My questions are simple,

1) If it was you could purchase a spear head, without lugs or a shaft, for $175, would you be interested?
2) If lugs or a fully mounted spear was available for an additional cost, would you be interested?
3) If do you feel that $175 is a fair price for a basic, sharp, fully functional spear head?

Depending on the response to these questions I plan to pursue this endeavor further, just looking to see if I am barking up a tree others may be interested in.
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Mike Capanelli




Location: Whitestone, NY
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ummm let me see............. Yes yes and yes.
Winter is coming
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Sam Barris




Location: San Diego, California
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PostPosted: Tue 31 Mar, 2009 11:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I second the triple yes. (2yes³) Wink
Pax,
Sam Barris

"Any nation that draws too great a distinction between its scholars and its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards, and its fighting done by fools." —Thucydides
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Gavin Kisebach




Location: Lacey, Wa US
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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 1:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd have to see it; basic is a very subjective term. I've seen hand forged knives that were horrible and rough with no polishing at all that were sold for hundreds of dollars under the guise of "basic" or "authentic". This is not to assume that you are going for this look at all, I just don't know how you define basic.

Do you mean basic geometry? A lozenge shape with lenticular cross section? Do you mean rough forged with little or no polishing? I'd love to see a picture, I think it would clear up a lot.

$175 isn't unreasonable for a well tempered, nicely finished spear. I like the idea of buying just the head in any case, because shipping poles is so brutally expensive.

There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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M. Eversberg II




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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 7:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Post a picture of what you would sell for that price, and then I will pass judgment.

M.

This space for rent or lease.
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Michael Pikula
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Location: Madison, WI
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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 7:53 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the feedback guys, I believe that I have had enough interest here and on some other forums to make a small run of 4-5 pieces. I will take pictures of the process an the end spear heads and post them as soon as I can pump them out.

Gavin, I very much see where you are coming from. In my terms basic means a 600 grit grind reduced to a satin finish, sharp edges and a sharp point that don't get damaged when I strike them with moderate force into a steel plate. The expected grind on these will be flat with a slight apple seed edge, no scale or hammer marks to be seen. I will get pictures up as soon as I can, I am shooting for next week.

Thanks!
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R D Moore




PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 8:08 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Michael

Thanks for getting us involved! Makes my feel like I'm playing a bigger part in the process.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. $175 is certainly reasonable for a forged spear head and is within my budget. But it would require some consideration about what is already being offered, and Arms and Armor is offering a Viking Spear for $165 with a haft, so that woiuld be a base of reference for me.

I may have been typing this response as you were sending yours! I'll look for the pics.

"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation" ...Gen. Douglas Macarthur
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Michael Pikula
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Location: Madison, WI
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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Mr. Moore,

I feel that reaching out and trying to make any perspective buyer part of the process is just as important as doing quality work. I took a look at the Arms and Armor spears and you are right, mine would be more expensive then the spears that they are offering. Once I start forging these out I will see what I can do to reduce my expected costs while still offering the best spear I can. I don't think I will be able to match the prices they are offering, but custom work usually runs a litte bit more expensive then production work. I'll see what I can come up with Wink
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R D Moore




PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 8:52 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks, Michael. I'll look for the pics. BTW, the reference to the A & A spear was to illustrate a point of reference for me, I wouldn't expect custom work to come in at the same price point as a production piece. And you have been offering custom work at very reasonable prices all along so I'm confident your price will represent a value. Another forumite mentioned in another thread that it wont be too much longer before your work will require a much longer waiting period and be sold at a higher price point. I agree with him!
"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation" ...Gen. Douglas Macarthur
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Michael Pikula
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Location: Madison, WI
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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 11:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here are two pictures of some WIP. The first shows an early attempt, but I feel that the over all shape and profile will give a better idea of what I am aiming at making. The second is a better shot of the one that turned out, the main difference will be a rounded socket and not the 8 sided version. After the first run is done and there is some feedback I would be more then happy to talk on an individual basis as far as customization is concerned.


 Attachment: 35.75 KB
Spear2.jpg


 Attachment: 81.72 KB
spearcomp.jpg

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Gavin Kisebach




Location: Lacey, Wa US
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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 4:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hello again Michael,

That's a pretty fine looking spear, and the socket is of particular interest; what was your inspiration for the socket and head profile?

[edit] how thick are the socket walls? I forgot to ask.

There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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R D Moore




PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 4:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What Gavin said. And what will be the diameter of the socket at it's base, outside to outside?
"No man is entitled to the blessings of freedom unless he be vigilant in its preservation" ...Gen. Douglas Macarthur
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 5:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very interesting at $175 and probably underpriced as your work always seems first rate.

Keeping the finishing or detailing minimal can permit you to sell at this price and still make it worth your while. ( Or at least that is something you have to work out ).

I'm sure some would be willing to order more expensive custom versions also but having a well made and sturdy " economy " version would be nice.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Wed 01 Apr, 2009 6:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Michael Pikula
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Location: Madison, WI
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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 6:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the interest guys! Jean pretty much nailed what I was going for. Sales of items I made outside of commissions have been pretty much nonexistent after the two pattern welded seax thread and the rondels so I am in some serious need of capitol and I figured the best way would be to offer a simple, fully functional, short run of items. I just worked through the forging of a spear so I figured it was a good place to start plus it would show diversity in that I can not only make something sharp and pointy, but also something sharp and pointy that goes at the end of a big stick! (ya, I still have a sense of humor)

The socket and profile on this spear was based off a photo that a customer provided, but since it is a commission I won't go into detail about it until the customer has taken delivery and is happy with the product. I'm sure there will be a thread with the spear head in the next two weeks or so, so stay tuned!

As for the socket, the small run that will have a socket that will be between 1 1/8 to 1 1/4 inches outside to outside, and the thickness will be around 1/16 at the base and gradually thicken until it is solid with a total inside cavity being around 3 1/2 inches deep.

And yes, I hope that this will make a fine base for others to ask for custom versions, and I would also like to do some pattern welded versions as well, but pattern welding hasn't been selling so that idea is on the back burner for when I have "free time" or a commission comes around.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well forged even if not pattern welded seems really appealing with properly hardened and sharpened edges and maybe you could have a waiting list for first dibs on the production run of these ? Not exactly like a custom order but half way sold assuming that the people getting on the list are serious about buying a spear head when they are finished ?

In other words see how much of a demand you have here at " myArmoury " or on other sites you frequent if any ?
Anyway, a way for us to get one of your pieces with currently tight budgets. Wink Cool

Do you take Paypal and what is your estimated production waiting time on these ?

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 7:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Note: For hafting it might be good to have a hole near the lip of the socket and make a forged pin for it ?

What would a lugged version look like and how much extra ?

I could certainly drill a hole myself but much neater to have the maker do it properly. ( I think this is historically accurate and I did this to my 2 A&A spears as they worked themselves loose: Used a masonry nail that looked primitive and not too modern ).

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Michael Pikula
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Location: Madison, WI
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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 7:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Note: For hafting it might be good to have a hole near the lip of the socket and make a forged pin for it ?

What would a lugged version look like and how much extra ?

I could certainly drill a hole myself but much neater to have the maker do it properly. ( I think this is historically accurate and I did this to my 2 A&A spears as they worked themselves loose: Used a masonry nail that looked primitive and not too modern ).


Hi Jean,

Yes, there will be a hole added, I just didn't get around to drilling it prior to taking pictures this morning and there will be a pin to match the ridge as well.

I am planning on making a couple of the first run with lugs and maybe try several styles. I am still trying to decide on how I will attach the lugs. I will be brazing the lugs on to the spear above and giving them a good test run to make sure the bond (and my brazing) will hold up to rugged use. I am also going to be trying to forge weld the lugs on and naturally the strongest method will end up being used and will reflect in the price. Once I know which works best I will be sure to post.

Edit**** I just noticed you posted twice! Sorry I missed the first post.

I have not been contacted by anyone outside of the thread about interest in the spear heads so we are all on the same page. I normally post on myArmoury first since everyone here has been good to me!

If anyone is interested in getting on a "I want first dibs on seeing what you come up with list" I think it would be best to send me a PM. Also if you are inclined on a certain profile and or lugs you can let me know and it just might show up in the first run! My main focus at the moment is to finish up the current spear head, and once it is complete I can get to work on the short run..... perhaps as early as next weekend.

And I do take paypal and I don't add for the paypal fee, I feel it is the merchant that should have to pay the fee and not the customer.
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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

SOLD :-)
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

How about this for a lugged spear, early partizan ?


 Attachment: 63.28 KB
Lugged Spear01 copy.jpg


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Patrick Kelly




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PostPosted: Wed 01 Apr, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd be interested in an affordable spear head. I'm eager to see what you come up with.
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