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Michael Pearce
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Location: Seattle, Wa.
Joined: 21 Feb 2004

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PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject: Tang breakage on CAS/H Tinker Line blunt         Reply with quote

The tang of one of the Tinker Pearce line longsword blunts has failed at the join of the tang and threads. This occurred because contrary to my specification the tangs of some early swords were welded on rather than cut on a reduced section of the tang. when I found this out I immediately protested; I think that it is safe to say that I have made my displeasure over this abundantly clear to CAS/Hanwei and have been assured that current and future swords will have the threads properly cut on the tang rather than welded on.

Any failure of the tang at the join of the tang and threads on any of the dismountable Tinker-line swords is a warranty issue and should be brought to the attention of CAS/Hanwei or your dealer for replacement.

Also- if you have one of these swords examine the join of the tang and screw threads. If you have any suspicion that it might be welded you should heat the last couple of inches of the tang and screw with a torch until it achieves a blue-grey color. This should be done because the heat of welding may in some cases have caused the 5160 to air-harden, making this juncture brittle and more than usually prone to failure.

When properly done this method of securing the pommel is more than adequately strong; of the hundreds of swords that I have made using this method not one has ever failed in use to the best of my knowledge. This includes swords used for years for WMA and even theatrical use- which is often harder on a sword than WMA use!

Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
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Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2009 9:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for bringing this to our attention and giving a quick fix for the problem which seems to be brittleness due to air hardening: Is a welded tang section O.K. if it's been done right although I understand that a screwed section integrally cut from the tang is THE better way to go.

Oh, is this a potential problem only with the longswords or could this be an issue with the one handers blunts ?

Mine seems to be holding out well in use so far but I haven't looked or noticed if the tang end is welded or not. ( Not sure how obvious this is to the untrained eye ? ).

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Sean Hayes




Location: Eugene Oregon
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

Posts: 6

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PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2009 9:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mike-

Thanks for the update! I'll have a look right away. They're performing well for us so far. Do you have an idea when custom pommels may be ready?

Thanks!

Sean

Sean Hayes
Maestro d'armi
Northweast Fencing Academy
http://www.fencingacademy.net
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Michael Pearce
Industry Professional



Location: Seattle, Wa.
Joined: 21 Feb 2004

Posts: 365

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2009 11:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Thanks for bringing this to our attention and giving a quick fix for the problem which seems to be brittleness due to air hardening: Is a welded tang section O.K. if it's been done right although I understand that a screwed section integrally cut from the tang is THE better way to go.

Oh, is this a potential problem only with the longswords or could this be an issue with the one handers blunts ?

Mine seems to be holding out well in use so far but I haven't looked or noticed if the tang end is welded or not. ( Not sure how obvious this is to the untrained eye ? ).


It's a problem with the first shipment across the board; the smart money would be to take a torch to it to make sure. Yes, welding is OK if it's done right, but isn't preferable.

Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
-------------
Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Michael Pearce
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Location: Seattle, Wa.
Joined: 21 Feb 2004

Posts: 365

Feedback score: None
PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2009 11:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sean Hayes wrote:
Mike-

Thanks for the update! I'll have a look right away. They're performing well for us so far. Do you have an idea when custom pommels may be ready?

Thanks!

Sean


Not soon, alas. I've talked to Gus about this but money is tight all around at the moment so that's kind of 'on hold' for the moment. Naturally I can make a custom pommel myself but that can be rather spendy...

Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
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Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Dustin R. Reagan





Joined: 09 May 2006

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PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2009 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the heads-up.

Just wanted to say that mine and my sparring partner's longsword blunts have held up well after two months of moderate use (drilling and sparring about twice a week) . I have a pretty high opinion of them (handling and durability) , even when compared to various other vendors' higher-priced options.

Thanks for the excellent product.

Dustin
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Michael Pearce
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Location: Seattle, Wa.
Joined: 21 Feb 2004

Posts: 365

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PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My pleasure- and thank you, Dustin! There has only been one problem reported so far; hopefully this was simply an isolated issue!
Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
-------------
Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Pearce wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Thanks for bringing this to our attention and giving a quick fix for the problem which seems to be brittleness due to air hardening: Is a welded tang section O.K. if it's been done right although I understand that a screwed section integrally cut from the tang is THE better way to go.

Oh, is this a potential problem only with the longswords or could this be an issue with the one handers blunts ?

Mine seems to be holding out well in use so far but I haven't looked or noticed if the tang end is welded or not. ( Not sure how obvious this is to the untrained eye ? ).


It's a problem with the first shipment across the board; the smart money would be to take a torch to it to make sure. Yes, welding is OK if it's done right, but isn't preferable.


Have you tried using the kitchen stove ? Turn on one of the top of stove heating elements and put the tang in contact with the red hot element until the tang section turn blue. one can wrap the shoulders of the blade with a wet towel to keep the tang near the blade from overheating.

Let the tang cool slowly by turning the heating element off.

Anyway would this be a gentle and easily controllable way of heating the tang to around 600 degrees F. for someone without a torch handy ?

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Michael Pearce
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Location: Seattle, Wa.
Joined: 21 Feb 2004

Posts: 365

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PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2009 11:11 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sounds like it should work- though I would simply remove it from the burner and let it air-cool; that will be gentle enough.
Michael 'Tinker' Pearce
-------------
Then one night, as my car was going backwards through a cornfield at 90mph, I had an epiphany...
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 26 Mar, 2009 11:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Pearce wrote:
Sounds like it should work- though I would simply remove it from the burner and let it air-cool; that will be gentle enough.


In my case the burner is an electric heating element but I have done this a long time ago to soften a file that I had made into a primitive dagger but needed to be drawn back from glass hard brittleness.

And yes just removing from the heating element and letting cool should work just as well.

I imagine that this can't do any harm to the blade tang and soften it if it needs it but won't change much if the tang was already O.K. ? Sort of a case of prudent " just in case " it needs it. Wink Cool

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