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Bryce W




Location: Oshawa Ontario, Canada
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 12:59 pm    Post subject: Springfield (Replica of 1842 model) musket balls?         Reply with quote

What calibre ball would this take? the bore is .69 (smooth, not rifled), but i want to know what size mould i should buy.
Thanks
Bryce


Last edited by Bryce W on Tue 03 Mar, 2009 2:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
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Reading list: 6 books

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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 2:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Springfield (1842 model) musket balls?         Reply with quote

Bryce W wrote:
What calibre ball would this take? the bore is .69 (smooth, not rifled), but i want to know what size mould i should buy.
Thanks
Bryce


Is this a replica or original musket?

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Bryce W




Location: Oshawa Ontario, Canada
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 2:35 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Its a replica, though by the distributor, it is made for live fire
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 5:43 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bryce W wrote:
Its a replica, though by the distributor, it is made for live fire


Of course it is, you said so in the title to your post. Excuse me for being less than observant.

Depending on how you plan to load the gun, i.e. with a patched round ball or a paper cartridge, you will want to use a bullet that is under the bore size. For a .69 caliber you will want to go with a .670 ball when patching with .010 - .015 patch. Because bore size will vary from gun to gun, even modern made guns, some experimentation is in order. I would try different size bullets with different thicknesses of patches until I hit upon the most accurate combination. Only then would I buy a mould.

Hope this helps.

By the way, about fourteen thousand or so original 1842 Springfields were rifled, although the early production was a smoothbore.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Bryce W




Location: Oshawa Ontario, Canada
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Reading list: 2 books

Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 9:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Awesome, thanks

You shouldn't apologize as it originally did not have the reproduction int the title. You made a good point so i changed it so as not to bring up the same question with others.
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Paul Kenworthy




Location: Saugus, MA
Joined: 18 Feb 2008

Posts: 24

PostPosted: Mon 23 Mar, 2009 11:51 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bryce,

The original Springfield musket model of 1842 fired a .650" ball that weighed 412 grains with a 110 gr. charge.

The ones that were later rifled to fire an expanding ball (aka Minie ball) fired a .685" ball that weighed 730 gr. with a 70 gr. charge.

American military practice was not to patch the ball.

There was another cartridge for use in the 1842 that contained, in addition to the .650" round ball, three buck shot. This was called buck-and-ball and was loaded with the ball first and the buckshot on top.

Armi Sport makes reproductions of both guns. I have the musket.

Hope that helps,

Paul

.
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
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PostPosted: Mon 23 Mar, 2009 5:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Kenworthy wrote:
Bryce,

The original Springfield musket model of 1842 fired a .650" ball that weighed 412 grains with a 110 gr. charge.

The ones that were later rifled to fire an expanding ball (aka Minie ball) fired a .685" ball that weighed 730 gr. with a 70 gr. charge.

American military practice was not to patch the ball.

There was another cartridge for use in the 1842 that contained, in addition to the .650" round ball, three buck shot. This was called buck-and-ball and was loaded with the ball first and the buckshot on top.

Armi Sport makes reproductions of both guns. I have the musket.

Hope that helps,

Paul

.


My assumption was that Bryce was not going to shoot his musket with paper cartridges so I recommended a ball and patch combination that might be fairly accurate. However, as I mentioned, bore sizes vary so he should experiment a bit before going to the expense of ordering a mould.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Paul Kenworthy




Location: Saugus, MA
Joined: 18 Feb 2008

Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue 24 Mar, 2009 10:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lin Robinson wrote:


My assumption was that Bryce was not going to shoot his musket with paper cartridges so I recommended a ball and patch combination that might be fairly accurate. However, as I mentioned, bore sizes vary so he should experiment a bit before going to the expense of ordering a mould.


Lin,

I just thought that since this is a military shoulder arm, he might like to know what the military loads were.

There are a whole bunch of things that you can do depending on what you want to use the gun for. First off, get a caliper and measure the actual bore size of your gun. Secondly, find out how you're going to be shooting. If you are going to be shooting NSSA smoothbore competitions, you're probably not going to be allowed to patch anyway. Paper cartridges may be a moot point too; I don't patch but I don't use paper cartridges either. I use plastic speed-loading tubes because I shoot in speed competitions. I also have to be able to get a ball down the bore after ten rounds without brushing.

Even things like using a bullet mould can be an issue. Swedged balls, like the US army used, have a more consistent weight distribution. Cast bullet are more likely to be eccentrically balanced due to trapped air bubbles. Cast bullets also have a flat spot where the sprue is cut off. This isn't a problem in rifled guns because you can load the flat spot up and it will stay there when the bullet spins, but you can't predict where the flat spot is going to end up when you fire a smoothbore.

The importance of all these little tweeks depends on the range you shoot at. Out to 50 yards, the most important thing is velocity. Note that the military charge for a smoothbore was significantly larger than for a rifle. Muzzle velocity will overwhelm small inaccuracies. Out past 50 yards, the velocity starts dropping off enough that other things start affecting the flight path more.

Best Regards,

Paul
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Lin Robinson




Location: NC
Joined: 15 Jun 2006
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Reading list: 6 books

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PostPosted: Tue 24 Mar, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Paul Kenworthy wrote:

I just thought that since this is a military shoulder arm, he might like to know what the military loads were.

There are a whole bunch of things that you can do depending on what you want to use the gun for. First off, get a caliper and measure the actual bore size of your gun. Secondly, find out how you're going to be shooting. If you are going to be shooting NSSA smoothbore competitions, you're probably not going to be allowed to patch anyway. Paper cartridges may be a moot point too; I don't patch but I don't use paper cartridges either. I use plastic speed-loading tubes because I shoot in speed competitions. I also have to be able to get a ball down the bore after ten rounds without brushing.

Even things like using a bullet mould can be an issue. Swedged balls, like the US army used, have a more consistent weight distribution. Cast bullet are more likely to be eccentrically balanced due to trapped air bubbles. Cast bullets also have a flat spot where the sprue is cut off. This isn't a problem in rifled guns because you can load the flat spot up and it will stay there when the bullet spins, but you can't predict where the flat spot is going to end up when you fire a smoothbore.

The importance of all these little tweeks depends on the range you shoot at. Out to 50 yards, the most important thing is velocity. Note that the military charge for a smoothbore was significantly larger than for a rifle. Muzzle velocity will overwhelm small inaccuracies. Out past 50 yards, the velocity starts dropping off enough that other things start affecting the flight path more.

Best Regards,

Paul


Good advice for Bryce. Having been bitten by the black powder bug some 41 years ago, I have done all that stuff myself. My latest passion is black powder cartridge shooting but time is so limited that I have not made it to the range in almost a year. Maybe this spring.

Lin Robinson

"The best thing in life is to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women." Conan the Barbarian, 1982
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Douglas G.





Joined: 30 Mar 2004

Posts: 156

PostPosted: Tue 24 Mar, 2009 7:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Bryce,
I hope you have a great time shooting your musket. I went back and forth between "smoothies" and rifles a few
times when I got the black powder bug. Then there was the whole flint versus percussion argument. I can't add
anything to what Lin and Paul have told you, but I would recommend taking a bottle of Formula 409 to spritz your
barrel after shooting. I sprayed after shooting and left it in the barrel until I got home to clean the gun, it really breaks
up and loosens residue nicely.


Best,

Doug Gentner
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