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Gordon Clark




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PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 6:46 pm    Post subject: Some pictures from the Frazier         Reply with quote

Had a visit to the Frazier Historical Museum in Louisville this weekend and took a few shots. Thought I would share.
First armor, arrow heads, maile and daggers



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Gordon Clark




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PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 6:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Second - swords


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Chuck Russell




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PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thanks Gordon. can you tell us some about the museum? like the size? how big is the exhibit? was it worth the trip with kids ehhe etc?
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Gordon Clark




Location: Purcellville, VA
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PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 7:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is 3 floors - nice place. Top floor is a semi permanent traveling exibition from the British Royal Armories in Leeds. A few harnesses, maybe a dozen sords, a few daggers, etc. Also some nice timeline stuff and an exibition area where they do martial arts and other "shows", sort of historical theater demos.

the rest of the museum was mostly guns - a very large number of winchesters, revolvers, etc from 1850-1900 mostly. Also some stuff from colonial period but not too much that I recall.

It was not a real kid pleaser, at least not for the under 10 crowd, my 11 year old liked it, esp the demos - but there is a science museum about a block away that the kids really loved, and lotsof other stuff in downtown Louiville. Worth the trip if you are in the area.

Gordon
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Christopher Gregg




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PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was just at the Frazier last January for their Historical Ball, and they let us have the run of the whole place. Gordon is right about the museum, and Louisville. I live about 10 miles from Downtown, so if you're planning a trip, get in touch and I can recommend plenty of things to see and do.
Christopher Gregg

'S Rioghal Mo Dhream!
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 02 Mar, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chuck Russell wrote:
thanks Gordon. can you tell us some about the museum? like the size? how big is the exhibit? was it worth the trip with kids ehhe etc?



A Visitor's Experience: The Frazier Arms Museum

An article by Chad Arnow

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Jason Elrod




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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 2:39 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Off topic but it looks like the fuller on one of those swords is squared off and terminates before hitting the guard. It doesn't seem to run all the way through the tang.
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Gordon Clark




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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 5:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The German parrying dagger in the top post is one of the prettiest of its type I have ever seen. The fullers are very deep and defined in a delicate but effective looking blade. It was my favorite piece, I think.
The large sword is a Type XX, with multiple shallow fullers running the entire length of the blade. The blade is marked as 15th century, I think, but the hilt as maybe 19th.

Gordon
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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 5:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Did you happen to notice if any or most of the lances were fully authentic (not reproduction shafts) ?
Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Gordon Clark




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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 5:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jared Smith wrote:
Did you happen to notice if any or most of the lances were fully authentic (not reproduction shafts) ?


Sorry - I did not. Here is a somewhat zoomed in picture of some of the pole arm shafts, you can see one studded one that might be original...



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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 7:34 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

More Frazier photos:

http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t...ht=frazier

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Dan Dickinson
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar, 2009 5:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the pics Gordon...any more information on that very nice little XVIII that reminds me of XVIII.6 in Records?
I love those broad hollow ground XVIII's
Thanks,
Dan
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar, 2009 5:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Dickinson wrote:
Thanks for the pics Gordon...any more information on that very nice little XVIII that reminds me of XVIII.6 in Records?
I love those broad hollow ground XVIII's
Thanks,
Dan


That could be XVIII.6. XVIII.6 in Records was on loan to the Royal Armouries. Some of what the Frazier displays is from the Royal Armouries. If it's not the same sword, then it must be a sister sword form the Castillion find.

Check out your copy of Records, then note the notch in the blade of both swords...

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Dan Dickinson
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Mar, 2009 1:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Chad, my first thought was that it was the same sword (especially since it might be on loan from the RA), and I was all set to ask Gordon if he knew if it was, but then I took a second look and I thought the quillons were slightly different and I couldn't positively see the substantial nick. Another look after your post though made me feel stupid as it appears that the records sword may have 2 slightly different quillon tips and that the pic that Gordon posted may simply be the other side of the sword. However, i still can't positively see the nick...some pics make it seem like it's there and others don't...what do you guys think.? Gordon...can i get some higher res pics of that sword?
Thanks.
Dan
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Gordon Clark




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 4:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dan Dickinson wrote:
Thanks Chad, my first thought was that it was the same sword (especially since it might be on loan from the RA), and I was all set to ask Gordon if he knew if it was, but then I took a second look and I thought the quillons were slightly different and I couldn't positively see the substantial nick. Another look after your post though made me feel stupid as it appears that the records sword may have 2 slightly different quillon tips and that the pic that Gordon posted may simply be the other side of the sword. However, i still can't positively see the nick...some pics make it seem like it's there and others don't...what do you guys think.? Gordon...can i get some higher res pics of that sword?
Thanks.
Dan


Here are two pics of the blade- I don't think it is the same sword, I can't see much of a notch on the Frazier sword. The cross looks different, not the quillons, but the thickening of the cross on the blade section, and the less pronounced area where the cross has a ridge descending into the blade (what is that called?)



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Gordon Clark




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 5:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here is a scan of the hilt of XVIII.6, as well as the whole sword. It wouuld be the other side of the sword, but see how much different the cross is across the blade?


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Gordon Clark




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 5:19 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ok - I'll quit after this. Here they are side by side, for those without Records...


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Gordon Clark




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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 5:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was able to zoom in on the writeup about the swords - not much info, but better than nothing...
Sword 3 (the XVIII) was a Castillon sword



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Peter Johnsson
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Mar, 2009 7:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Now I need to plan a visit to the Frazier!
Thank you for posting pictures, Gordon.

I did get an opportunity to document that XVIII before it was shipped to the states. It is not the one published in "Records".
A very fine sword and quite well preserved. There are some troublesome pressure marks from what looks like the cross hatched jaws of a modern vice on the tang, as well as possibly some modern grind marks (?). Could not say 100% sure. Maybe a dealer did some "improvements" on it, or took it apart for cleaning? It did not come across as a fake at all, however. A very fine and genuine sword. Just possibly something had been done to it during restoration.

A rather hefty one, as most of this type seems to be. Short and powerful, but because of short blade length and narrow point, they are still quick and agile.
Both blade and guard are *very* nicely done. The little "acorn" extension is skillfully shaped. Very tight fit between blade and guard. Small chisel marks in the guard on the tang side to make it sit even more tightly.

The recess in the pommel has some traces of something powdery and red. I got the impression it was sealing wax. Perhaps these swords had a few drops of sealing wax with an imprint of the seal of the commander who commissioned them, or who had them commissioned to himself. They are thought to be military issue swords, after all. An alternative to having an enameled personal shield set into the pommel (in those cases when the sword was more of a personal property perhaps).

I had hopes to be able to document the type XVI with very discreetly S-curved guard at some later visit to the Royal Armouries, but now it seems I have to travel to the States to see it. Being European, it makes me feel robbed, somehow... Wink That is a very nice sword: it would have been interesting to learn from it.
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