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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 26 Feb, 2009 11:01 pm    Post subject: Del Tin Chopper purchase.         Reply with quote

Well couldn't resist so I just bought this one:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~DT51...lchion.htm

Kult of Athena seems to be getting a lot of Del Tins lately and I'm happy about it as the Del Tins always seem to have a period made look and they were once just about the only good quality production swords ( Well A & A has been around for quite a while also ).

Anyway, I have a Windlass MRL version and I think this one will be better because for one the steel is harder at 50 R.C. and secondly because the handle assembly looks better than the riveted slabs of the Windlass!

Windlass swords and knives seem to have good heat treat but are on the soft side a bit. ( Actually a lot of period sword where this soft or softer, but I like 50 R.C. as a good compromise between edge holding, edge hardness and shock resistance ).

Hard to say that the Del Tin is more authentic but to me it does look more elegant and plausible even though we can't really say since no period choppers seem to have survived !? If someone knows of one I would be very curious to see what it looks like and how it is put together as well as the handling.

There have been other Topics threads on these choppers but I would ask again what purpose if any the scallops near the point might have ?

One guess I would make is that to me one could use these as a concussive flange in a way similar to certain flanged maces: In other words a bit like a single flanged mace on one side and an aggressive chopping blade on the other.

Overall these are short weapons but one versatile in that one handed use should be possible with a hand near the blade and heavier blows or parrying as a very short staff weapon or axe ( Or shortish two handed sword ).

The Del Tin blade also seems to have some distal taper and a thicker blade than the Windlass.

The blade design with a slight curve and and recurve near the point gives me the impression of a cutting/chopping blade much more effective than it's short size would imply: Things in common with the kukri, falcata, falchion families with axe like chopping qualities combines with the agility of a short bladed sword.

Oh, and at the same time a little " Plug " for KoA for great customer service and a wide variety of products. Wink Big Grin

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Gavin Kisebach




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PostPosted: Thu 26 Feb, 2009 11:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean this is a total guess on my part but the points of the blade look like they were designed to turn a cutter into a quasi piercing weapon. In other words a point like that would split maile rings apart and probably function much like the point of a can opener against partial plate. It's almost as if a bec de corbin and a falchion were thrown into a mixing bowl and this is what came out.
There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Thu 26 Feb, 2009 11:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gavin Kisebach wrote:
Jean this is a total guess on my part but the points of the blade look like they were designed to turn a cutter into a quasi piercing weapon. In other words a point like that would split maile rings apart and probably function much like the point of a can opener against partial plate. It's almost as if a bec de corbin and a falchion were thrown into a mixing bowl and this is what came out.


At a certain angle the point could be used like the top horn of an axe maybe and have some piercing potential ? But again guessing ?

Would the top scallops be sharpened also ? Hard to tell anything for sure with only period art to base one's guesses on ?

One approach is to speculate using the form follows function way and try to imagine how one would use the scallops to attack, or even in defense to deflect a blow: If it's possible to use something in a specific way the odds would be that someone would even if the original reasons for the shape was just aesthetic or arbitrary.

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Gavin Kisebach




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PostPosted: Fri 27 Feb, 2009 12:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't even know that the scallop points (I'm still fumbling for a better descriptor here) would have to be sharpened. They look to be plenty acute without much of a bevel, but having handled one what do you think?
There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Fri 27 Feb, 2009 12:38 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gavin Kisebach wrote:
I don't even know that the scallop points (I'm still fumbling for a better descriptor here) would have to be sharpened. They look to be plenty acute without much of a bevel, but having handled one what do you think?


Not sharpened on the MRL version but this is why I think they remind me so much of the flanges of a mace and think they could be used this way and don't need to be sharpened to be effective.

One reason I see this as useful is that against maille and even more plate the sharp side wouldn't be effective and would just take damage or at the very least be dulled by contact on armour: Against a hard target one could save the sharp side and keep it sharp and use the " scallop " points and be able to do a lot of damage without doing any damage to the weapon.

These also look like they could do double duty as a tool in the same way axes can be tools or weapons although a pure weapon axe will be optimized for this use.

Chopper: Axe, mace, machete, falchion, sword, short pole weapon ....... a bit capable of doing it all in a compact sturdy package. Exclamation Question

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Ed Toton




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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: Del Tin Chopper purchase.         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Well couldn't resist so I just bought this one:
http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~DT51...lchion.htm


Somehow I completely missed that they had these. Thanks for pointing it out! I just placed an order as well.

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Hugo Voisine





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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 8:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was thinking about buying one of those since they became available through Kult of Athena...

Let us know your impressions when you get your hands on it.

I'm very curious to know how it would handle.

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Tony Brass





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PostPosted: Tue 03 Mar, 2009 8:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean,

I love your new purchase. The concept of the "chopper" has always interested me. I have been particularly interested in Del Tin's Falcata. During my early interest in swords I purchased the only chopper that I could find - Cold Steel's Chinese War Sword. Although not historically accurate, and not really in my area of interest (European Swords) the devastating power of these blades would be useful on any battlefield.

I also think using the reverse side against armor makes a great deal of sense. I have never really understood how a fighter would be willing to repeatedly slam his fine blade into maille, and plate. Having a blunt, club-like side to a weapon seems most useful in that situation.
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar, 2009 8:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well just got it this morning, great customer service by KoA as usual.

First impressions: It only looks small and compact in the KoA pics, it's actually somewhat big and more impressive than the Windlass version.

The Windlass version has a slimmer blade and the full tang + the brass pommel and guard add weight to the handle and the POB of the Windlass is just at the front of the guard. With the Del Tin there is more blade presence in spite of the fact that the Del Tin blade has more distal taper than the Windlass blade. ( Lighter handle in proportion to the blade on the Del Tin ??? ).

Both versions are easy to use one handed if the hand is close to the blade on the handle and with both one can affect the handling and blade presence considerably depending on where on the handle one holds the choppers: Very much like a bastard sword equally good using with one or two hands.

The handle of the Del Tin is peened as mentioned in the KoA pics and specifications but it also has another smaller pin near the top of the steel pommel or pommel plate that makes sure the plate won't rotate if it got a bit loose: Nice design detail.

The pommel and guard ( Well sort of a guard as its more a metal collar at the blade end of the handle ) have a nice handmade look. The handle's cross-section is very oval but gets wider and more oval near the pommel end and gives a great sense of blade orientation in handling.

At the widest point the blade is 4 1/4" wide but if one measures the total width from the highest point at the back of the blade to the point on the edge side one gets 6 1/2": This would be the width of the metal sheet stock needed to cut out the outline of the blade. There is a subtle primary bevel about 3/4" wide to the unsharpened edge. The blade near the end becomes a thin but extremely wide cutting surface meaning that the blade geometry could hardly be more aggressive.

The unsharpened edge is dull enough to not cut at around 1 mm but I wouldn't even think of sparring with one of these as I think even unsharpened one could easily take an arm off if one wasn't very VERY careful: So this is a " safe " edge for display but not for any sparring. as mentioned in my previous posts the back with the aggressive scallops and point could be very effective and dangerous even if 2 mm or 3 mm thick nearer to the point(s) !

Haven't stressed the blade in testing but it does seem to have some good flex and a good heat treat: The only minor flaw is that the blade has a small amount of warpage near the thinnest part of the blade at the point spread over the last 5 or 6 inches ( In other words a gentle gradual warp and not a sudden obvious bend ). This is VERY minor but I thought I should mention it to make sure that expectations are accurate if someone wants to buy one.

There " was " a varnish on the blade that took me an hour or so of sanding to remove but it was a very well done and even finish that wouldn't be obvious if someone just wants to use the Del Tin for display and it did protect from rust.

I removed it because I am going to do some very light aging of the blade using a diluted mixture of GUN BLUE and water and with just brush it on and buff it partially off. ( Looks nice as received but I like giving a little campaign worn look to some of my weapons ).

My final comments are that I really like it Big Grin

( No camera for pics ).

Oh, on a previous Topic dealing with these choppers I read that there was an official review in the works for the Del Tin but this was quite a while ago ?

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JE Sarge
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar, 2009 9:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean,

I see I am not the only one who got a KoA Del Tin this week. Funny enough, I was thinking about buying the chopper you just picked up next week...lol...I guess I could always use another model.

I am glad you like it, man... Big Grin

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar, 2009 9:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:

Oh, on a previous Topic dealing with these choppers I read that there was an official review in the works for the Del Tin but this was quite a while ago ?


As far as I know, there is no review in our queue for this item. It has been discussed before, though. We thought we had a batch of Del Tin reviews lined up a few years ago that included this piece, but the author didn't come through. Too bad...

Russ over at Tritonworks published his own review: http://tritonworks.com/reviews?content=review...eltin_5133

Happy

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar, 2009 9:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

JE Sarge wrote:
Jean,

I see I am not the only one who got a KoA Del Tin this week. Funny enough, I was thinking about buying the chopper you just picked up next week...lol...I guess I could always use another model.

I am glad you like it, man... Big Grin


If you get one also you can add your impressions to my comments: It's always good to have one's opinion " confirmed " or " contradicted " as one can learn from the discussion either way. Wink Laughing Out Loud

There is also an interesting Cinquedea at KoA that is very tempting but with the stockmarket still very much going the wrong way I really do have to ration my buying, but sometimes spending is good for one's positive outlook as well as keeping the economy limping along. Razz Laughing Out Loud Cool

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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Wed 04 Mar, 2009 10:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just finished bluing the blade and found an interesting way to age or patinate the blade using Gun Blue but with a twist.

Firstly, unlike with a firearm a perfect even finish isn't essential and in fact a bit of splotchiness is a plus. Often the blue is too deep or dark so I would in the past sand it down lighter but this always seemed like I would sand too much and either re-polish bright or have to re-do the blue a few times before I got it just like I wanted.

This time after applying the blue I used an artificial steel wool ( like ) to remove the blue and at the same time reapply it: This means that I made a diluted solution of the bluing paste ( + water ) and used the abrasive wet and as I was removing some overdark blue I was lightly greying the metal that now just looks like aged steel.

The results as a much more naturally aged steel look but just weathered or stained by much use but well cared for. Big Grin

Just another trick to add to the DYO home project enhancements although the Del Tins needs this a lot less than the Windlass swords or knives (Windlass look too mirror polished or chrome-like as they come out of the box but are easy to make look 100% better with minimal effort ).

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