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Dustin Keith




Location: North Carolina
Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue 17 Feb, 2009 7:19 pm    Post subject: gated leg armor         Reply with quote

Hello wealth of knowledge folk.......

I've posted a few times before, and have always received such great advice. I'm piecing together a LATE transitional kit, (C1390-1410) and am having my legs made by Nute Scott of armourgnomes.com who has built all of my other pieces. He was planning on doing a gated greive, as well as thigh armor (cuiass???). I am fairly certain that the gated grieve was around during this period, but does anyone know when the full wrap cuiass came into being?? Thank you for your help.

Dustin Keith.

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Nat Lamb




Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
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Posts: 385

PostPosted: Tue 17 Feb, 2009 7:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thing about "transitional" armour is that in the year 1392 (to pick randomly) there wasn't single type of armour being used that was 1/2 way between the ealier maille and later plate, the various types were occuring together, one person might have been wearing a maille chauser(s?) with a reinforced poleyon while fighting a dude with a fully enclosed leg. As to the specifics of your question, I won't venture to answer since there are numerous people who post on this site who know far more than I, but as far as I can recall enlclosed grieve start showing up 1350 (ish) , while fully enclosed cuisses don't really show up till 1420s (ish). But as I said, I am sure you will get a reply from someone who can give you exact dates and battle sites excavated
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Dustin Keith




Location: North Carolina
Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed 18 Feb, 2009 6:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks a lot Nat. I was affraid that they wouldn't have quite been around yet by that time......anyone else with any info??? ALSO, Im looking for some good padded chausses, does anyone know where to get these? Thanks.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Feb, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm afraid I don't know the term "gated" in relation to armour. Do you mean splinted armour?

I grabbed 4 of my books on monumental brasses (2D effigies still found in great numbers in England) and quickly thumbed through them. By 1380-1400, solid greaves appear to be standard, though some could be shinbalds (covering the shin but not fully enclosing the lower leg). Cuisses were most often solid plate. A few examples exist that could be padded or fabric-covered splints or fabric-covered plate, but it's hard to know.

Plate cuisses date from the 1360s or so. The effigy of the Black Prince (d. 1376) shows plate cuisses and greaves. And it doesn't seem to be unusual for its time in that respect.

It would kind of depend on who you're trying to portray. A well-to-do knight or noble of that era would probably have plate greaves and cuisses. A country knight or hired man at arms might have older style splinted armour or armour that isn't up to date.

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Dustin Keith




Location: North Carolina
Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Wed 18 Feb, 2009 10:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you Chad. I borrow the term "gated" from my armourer, Nute, to describe armor such as grieves or vambraces that are hinged, and close together to completely encompass the whole extremity they are protecting. I have heard people speak of the Black Prince's effigy before, where can I learn more about this? Thanks, Dustin.
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 18 Feb, 2009 10:18 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Dustin Keith wrote:
I have heard people speak of the Black Prince's effigy before, where can I learn more about this? Thanks, Dustin.


Have you read the article linked in Chad's, yours, and now my post regarding the Black Prince?

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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 19 Feb, 2009 6:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Okay, I haven't heard anyone call those gated before. Fully enclosing greaves should be fine. I would think cuisses that enclose the leg would be too. There is at least one set of legs in the Churburg armoury with greaves and cuisses as you describe. They're roughly contemporary with your era.

Fully enclosed legs seem to be the norm in brasses and effigies of that period.

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Dustin Keith




Location: North Carolina
Joined: 09 Dec 2008

Posts: 18

PostPosted: Thu 19 Feb, 2009 10:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Dustin Keith wrote:
I have heard people speak of the Black Prince's effigy before, where can I learn more about this? Thanks, Dustin.


Have you read the article linked in Chad's, yours, and now my post regarding the Black Prince?


Nathan........ sometimes it just takes a good slap upside the head I guess! Thanks for pointing out my stupidity. and Chad, thank you very much for the info, I did about an hour of going thru as many pictures of the Black Prince's effigy as I could find last night, to find that yes, he too had fully enclosed leg armor. Thank you guys very much. I'm going to be posting some pictures here as soon as I get my new leg armor in. I have been very pleased with Nute Scott's work. I had originally started with Indian knock off stuff, and there is really no comparison as to the quality, and comfort of his armor to theirs. Thanks again.

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David E. Farrell




Location: Evanston, IL
Joined: 25 Jun 2007

Posts: 156

PostPosted: Thu 19 Feb, 2009 1:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Okay, I haven't heard anyone call those gated before. Fully enclosing greaves should be fine. I would think cuisses that enclose the leg would be too. There is at least one set of legs in the Churburg armoury with greaves and cuisses as you describe. They're roughly contemporary with your era.

Fully enclosed legs seem to be the norm in brasses and effigies of that period.



Yeah, I haven't either - 'cased greaves' tends to be the more common term for fully enclosed greaves.

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