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Will Hurt





Joined: 11 Feb 2009

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 11 Feb, 2009 3:22 pm    Post subject: Underclothes         Reply with quote

Hi all,
first post on this forum. ive just been getting into this whole collecting deal, so im still full of questions, one of which is as follows:
For SCA and other forms of live combat, what do you wear underNEATH your plate armor? And how do you lace it all (meaning leg plates, arm plates, spaulders etc.) up to stay in place?
Sorry if the question is a bit vague, but im just starting.
Thanks
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D. Austin
Industry Professional



Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 20 Sep 2007

Posts: 208

PostPosted: Wed 11 Feb, 2009 6:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Will,

If you head along to a local SCA meeting I'm sure there'll be plenty of people willing to show you how they do it. A lot of SCA gear is designed to be quick and easy and as such won't be particularly historical, but will be practical (such as those kneepads used for skateboarding). The answer to your question really depends on the style of armour you have in mind and the degree to which you are willing to compromise historical accuracy.

A basic answer however, could be that you'd wear a padded gambeson or arming doublet, to which almost everything is laced. A simpler method, is to join all parts of the arm and shoulder protection with leather straps, up to the gorget, creating a one-piece system which is quite quick and easy to put on. The legs could be hung from a belt (as is common in the SCA) or form a pourpoint (more comfortable and historical, but more effort to make too).

I hope this helps.

Darren.
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Will Hurt





Joined: 11 Feb 2009

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 11 Feb, 2009 8:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

appreciate the advice. Are there groups of historical fighting reenactors apart from the SCA? Because I would definitly want to be able to do something a little more... realistic.
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G.Alan Beck




Location: Seattle Washington
Joined: 23 Dec 2007

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Wed 11 Feb, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: More Realistic         Reply with quote

Greetings & Welcome Will. Here are a few websites to help put you on the path to historically accurate Western Martial Arts training. As for fantasy groups like SCA I'm afraid I would be of little help. Sorry but I'm not computer literate enough to provide links to the sites.*
Training:
www.thearma.org
www.aemma.org
www.scholasaintgeorge.org
Clothing:
www.revival.us
www.historicenterprises.com
www.revivalclothing.com

*[Ed.—Mr. Beck, simply writing the link as I have done above works fine. Note that you need spaces between your links for them to be readable, which is why they were not automatically working before. Regards, -Gabriel L.]

In Ferro Veritas
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
Industry Professional



Location: Ramona CA USA
Joined: 22 Jan 2004

Posts: 129

PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb, 2009 12:01 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For plate armour of the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries, you want an upper body undergarment called an "arming doublet". On the lower half, you want leggings called "chausses" for the mid-late 14th c, split hose for the late 14th-early 15th c, or "joined hose" for the 15th c into the 16th c.

Generally, these garments are NOT padded, but designed to support the body, fitting closely, and providing the foundation to which the armour pieces are "pointed" or tied with laces through pair of eyelets, at the shoulders, upper arms and lower hem.

Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
WorldJoust Tournaments™
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D. Austin
Industry Professional



Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 20 Sep 2007

Posts: 208

PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb, 2009 1:57 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Will Hurt wrote:
appreciate the advice. Are there groups of historical fighting reenactors apart from the SCA? Because I would definitly want to be able to do something a little more... realistic.


There are plenty of other groups. I guess it depends on where you live.

Regarding the realistic part, this depends on your priorities. Some would say SCA is more realistic than groups who use steel as it's full contact and not rehearsed or choreographed. Others would regard groups who put more effort into historically accurate equipment or who study historical martial arts texts as more realistic. Some would suggest that you go for a living art such as kenjutsu. Personally, I like the sound of all of these, it's just a pity they can't be combined. Again, it just comes down to what you're after in a group (and what you can find nearby).

Cheers,

Darren
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David E. Farrell




Location: Evanston, IL
Joined: 25 Jun 2007

Posts: 156

PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb, 2009 6:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

D. Austin wrote:
Will Hurt wrote:
appreciate the advice. Are there groups of historical fighting reenactors apart from the SCA? Because I would definitly want to be able to do something a little more... realistic.


There are plenty of other groups. I guess it depends on where you live.

Regarding the realistic part, this depends on your priorities. Some would say SCA is more realistic than groups who use steel as it's full contact and not rehearsed or choreographed. Others would regard groups who put more effort into historically accurate equipment or who study historical martial arts texts as more realistic. Some would suggest that you go for a living art such as kenjutsu. Personally, I like the sound of all of these, it's just a pity they can't be combined. Again, it just comes down to what you're after in a group (and what you can find nearby).



There are a number of 'western martial arts' groups that study historical European combat arts around the world who don't choreograph anything, but it isn't a free-for-all either. They typically study an art which has been reconstructed from period manuscripts. Of course, they also won't just let you in and immediately start fighting with steel, plastic or wood(then again, neither does any responsible SCA group...)

If you want to find one of these groups, I'd post a request for information here: http://forums.swordforum.com/forumdisplay.php...c&f=15

AKA: 'Sparky' (so I don't need to explain later Wink )

For he today that sheds his blood with me shall be my brother
-- King Henry, Henry V, William Shakespeare

Before I came here I was confused about this subject. Having listened to your lecture I am still confused... but on a higher level.
-- Enrico Fermi
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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb, 2009 7:41 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This site will interest you:

https://www.historicenterprises.com

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Will Hurt





Joined: 11 Feb 2009

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb, 2009 10:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for all of that. to answer where im located, I am currently in Greenfield MAssachusetts, a very small town closest to springfield then anything else.
Mr. Flynt, i see that most of the armor pieces on Historic Enterprises are very high priced, yet similar items on other armory sites are much cheaper. by the descrption I know that they are all made of the same material and to a similar degree of craftsmenship, so why the large price tag?
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Sean Flynt
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myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Will Hurt wrote:

Mr. Flynt, i see that most of the armor pieces on Historic Enterprises are very high priced, yet similar items on other armory sites are much cheaper. by the descrption I know that they are all made of the same material and to a similar degree of craftsmenship, so why the large price tag?


Price is usually an indication of historical accuracy and fit. Those who take those things seriously (who want an authentic look and experience) have to spend big. Inaccurate and ill-fitting armour just doesn't work properly, by most accounts. I think you'd find similar prices among comparable U.S. armourers (although there aren't many at this level.)

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Jessica Finley
Industry Professional



Location: Topeka, Kansas
Joined: 29 Dec 2003

Posts: 110

PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Will Hurt wrote:
Thanks for all of that. to answer where im located, I am currently in Greenfield MAssachusetts, a very small town closest to springfield then anything else.?


Will - You're not all that far from Christian Tobler. Contact him here: www.selohaar.org -Jessica

Selohaar Fechtschule, Free Scholar
http://www.selohaar.org/fechtschule

Fühlen Designs, Owner/Designer/Seamstress
http://fuhlendesigns.com
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Steven H




Location: Boston
Joined: 10 May 2006

Posts: 545

PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You're also not that far from the Higgins Armory in Worcester (www.higginssword.org).

You're also about two hours from a couple of groups in the Boston area, such as my own. If that's too far even class once a month is far easier than trying to figure it out on your own.

I also suspect that there is SCA at UMass Amherst.

Cheers,
Steven

Kunstbruder - Boston area Historical Combat Study
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Will Hurt





Joined: 11 Feb 2009

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu 12 Feb, 2009 7:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I appreciate all the feedback, but as of now i am not mobile enough (trapped at school) to actually go to anything but the closest meetings. But, I am going to start saving money now so that when i am finally free I can really get into it!
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