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Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > Troy/Bronze Swords/Albion $$$$ Reply to topic
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Wed 12 May, 2004 4:45 am    Post subject: Troy/Bronze Swords/Albion $$$$         Reply with quote

From reviews I have read Troy is looking like its going to be worth seeing and may even be historically believable. (At least by Hollywood standards.) The fighting may even be realistic!

I suspect that this may do for BRONZE SWORDS what Dirty Harry did for the .44 Magnum.

Note to Albion: Fast tract Next Generation Bronze Swords &/ or be ready to fill many more orders of the existing ones.
(Happy ownner of an Hurnfield Sword.)

Can we buy STOCK in the company ? ( Joking.................Maybe only HALF joking!)

Anyway, I would like to see Albion make profits from the collateral "benefits" of this: $$$$$$$$$$$
Good for them, good interesting Swords for us !

OOOOOOOOps, lets not forget the line of Greek Armor !

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Fri 14 May, 2004 7:07 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just saw the film and liked it a lot: The fighting seems very credible to me, no Computer Graphic silly flying around or surviving impossibly high fall or blows.

I would like the opinion of those who train with sword & shield of the fighting in this film.

At the very least the fighting is Unique compared to most movie sword fights: Little or no edge to edge blade contact, the actors look as if they are trying to kill/cut each other not find every opportunity to clang their swords together!

They use their shields dynamically, as a weapon, not a static wall to hide behind.
They move to avoid blows.

I'm sure that those with more expertise may see flaws that I do not. (Looking forward to your opinions after you have seen it.)

There seems to be an economy & precision of movement that reminds me of some of the best Samurai movies, but in a western style: Achilles is like a greek Musashi.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Gordon Frye




Location: Kingston, Washington
Joined: 20 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Sun 16 May, 2004 8:16 pm    Post subject: Troy and Bronze         Reply with quote

Jean;

Interesting stuff. I've not seen the film yet, but it sounds to be of interest. I rather like the fact that you state that they aren't doing blade-on-blade, edge-on-edge fighting! I should imagine that with a bronze sword such activities would rapidly lead to a saw-blade rather than a sword in hand!

Considering that fact that the Hollywood Western is really nothing but a Greek Tragedy updated, I'm not at all surprised that the original has some similarities! I hope that to some extent at least they tried to be reasonably faithful to the Illiad, it would be a travesty if yet again the Studio Chiefs decided that they new better than the author of a work that has survived for thousands of years as a classic. But it wouldn't surpise me at all, the Hubris of a Studio Chief is legendary!

"The gods did set him up for a terrible fall, much to their great amusement..." Eek!

Oh, that Studio Heads were to suffer as did the great Achillies! Laughing Out Loud

Anyway, interesting, thanks for posting this.

Gordon

"After God, we owe our victory to our Horses"
Gonsalo Jimenez de Quesada
http://www.renaissancesoldier.com/
http://historypundit.blogspot.com/
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Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,427

PostPosted: Sun 16 May, 2004 9:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I enjoyed the movie. Not a watershed film but a good enough show all things considered.

AND yes now I do want a Bronze sword of my very own.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Mon 17 May, 2004 10:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gordon;

I meant "Western" in the wide sense of european in opposition to "Asian", but your comment about Hollywood western being similar is quite valid.
Now they did change the story somewhat: No Gods actively involved in the story and a ten year siege becomes a week at the beach.
No spoillers. but I am sure that an accademic purist would see many changes from the "Homer" original.

You could see this movie as what might have happenned and later reported in "Homers Epic" poem based on a long verbal tradition with reporting errors.

Taken as, based on the Illiad, the story stands on it's own.
If seen as, THE ILLIAD, then no it isn't.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Bill Tsafa




Location: Brooklyn, NY
Joined: 20 May 2004

Posts: 599

PostPosted: Sun 23 May, 2004 8:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I saw the movie and have read the illiad. The movie's timing of events is totaly off. for one thing the illiad takes place in the 9th year of the war. Achilies never gets to see the Wooden horse. He dies in the 9th year, horse comes in the 10 th year. Agamman does not die in troy but makes it back home to be killed by his wife and her lover. But other then timing diffrences they do manage to capture the spirit of the Illiad. The Illiad is about Achilies struggle with his own mortality. He fights only so that other will rember him. That is the center-peace. The part about agmemnon taking his prize slave girl is also straight out of the Illiad. although i don't think wanted her for sex, that is what his so called "cousin", patroclus, was for. The fight scens where very real. mostly one on one. Remeber it was all about glory. thats why they dragged it out 10 years. Two spears, first to be thrown and a sheild. I don't recall the use of swords. I don't think sowrds where very popular till the roman age. The swords they did use in those days more closely resemble a daggers. Oh and of course body armour. Which was the prize to be claimed in any one on one engagement. Allthough the illiad does not give much detail on the body armour realisticaly it would have been hardened leather with maybe a few bronze plates here and there. certainly not all plate like in the movie. But a most see movie it is.

p.s. in the illiad achilies cuts off hectors head and makes figure eights in front of walls. paris does put a single arrow in his heal. he most likly would have died from infection.

i hope someone out there cares i wrote all this :-)
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Kirk Lee Spencer




Location: Texas
Joined: 24 Oct 2003

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PostPosted: Mon 24 May, 2004 10:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Vassilis...

I care Happy ... excellent post. Thanks for taking the time...

I was thinking Agamemnon's wife (Clythemnestra or something like that) was mad at Agamemnon for sacrificing their daughter (Epigenia or something like that) to get a little wind to take them to Troy. I don't remember her lover? But I think Cassandra got caught up in this somehow...

It seems like Theseus came home to a wife with a lover though... And I think he met a similar fate as Agamemnon.

Great to have you here Vassilis...

ks

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Elling Polden




Location: Bergen, Norway
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Tue 25 May, 2004 12:02 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Just for the hell of it, we figured out the Achilles Special Jumping Power Attack™!

What he does is basicaly a left-right body feint, where he instead of sliding right, jumps forward and to the right.
The jump is not imposible to do. Making the attack while doing so, however, is the stuff of demigods...

Yours
elling
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
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PostPosted: Tue 25 May, 2004 1:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Forgive me for making a few pedantic corrections.

Theseus didn't participate in the Trojan war. He died a few years before it started. Perhaps you are thinking of Diomedes, whose wife, like Agamemnon's tried to kill him after he returned home. Unlike Agamemnon, Diomedes escaped, and ended up in southern Italy where he founded a colony. Almost all the major Achaean heroes had difficult homecomings. the only exception I can think of is Nestor, who got back scot free.

Swords are mentioned in the Iliad, but spears were certainly the weapon of choice.

Briseis as the cause of the quarrel between Achilles and Agamemnon - losing his beloved slavegirl wasn't really the cause. She was a prize, a symbol of honor and acclaim, and when Agamemnon took her, it was to tarnish Achilles' honor and status. Briseis in herself had no particular value, though its apparent in the Iliad that one of her functions was that of bedmate. A homosexual relationship between Achilles and Patroclus isn't really apparent in the Iliad. It wasn't until the time of Classical Greece that their friendship was viewed in a sexual light, for instance in Aeschylos' (sp?) The Myrmidons

The Iliad ends shortly before Achilles is killed. He got to have a nice little post Iliad adventure with Penthesilea, the Queen of the Amazons before Paris shot him.

The Pedant Lamp is off.
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