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Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
Joined: 02 Sep 2008

Posts: 239

PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 1:16 am    Post subject: In search for a good, solid, cheap sword         Reply with quote

I need to buy a sword for reenactoring and sparring, but being a university student I don't have access to many resources and I don't want to weigh on my parents for this...

I postponed often the actual buing because I don't think it can be part of my persona, a professional soldier of Como in the early 1200, but now with the arrival of the tournament's season I can't delay more. For mock battle sword is the preferable alternative, and I have found some people with whom I can spar, but I can't always use a borrowed sword or one of the "wallhangers" (or trash-hanger) of the company.

So the need for a good, solid arming sword, of good carbon steel, with a blunt edge that can withstand the rigors of battle. I don't search for the look, beyond a historical "minimun" of accuracy. I can even make small works on it (not forging, but some cold grounding I can).

Where would you draw the line? What maker can you propone? If I have to spend 50-60 more for a better sword I can consider it, but I would very like to restrain the budget.

Tnks to all

P.S.: I know this is a newbie answer, but I really need an advice
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 1:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For something durable to bash around in a sparring type setting with a minimal safe edge, I'd go with a Hanwei Practical series sword, such as the Viking, Norman, Knightly, or Hand and a Half. These priced in the area of $100USD and tend to take a good beating, not to mention they can be easily replaced if broken beyond repair. I'd begin with one of these and see how you stuck with it before investing in something more expensive. Big Grin

Here is an overview of their Practical Series products. The prices are a little more on the site below than they would be if you were to purchase local or from an Internet retailed in your area:

http://www.casiberia.com/productsearch.asp?su...=Practical

These are much safer than wallhangers as well as being built to be moderately abused in a somewhat safe manner with proper safety equipment. You won't find anything cheaper than these for your intended use.

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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P. Cha




PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 2:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Okay so since your a re-enactor...does the sword have to look like a sword? The hanwei practical while a good cheap training blunt doesn't look very much like a sword for re-enactments. However since sword that look like swords tend to be on the stiff side and have pinty ends, they make poor sparring weapons. So basically what aspect do you need the sword for since if you need it for both, your just gonna have to get two swords.
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Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
Joined: 02 Sep 2008

Posts: 239

PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 2:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For P. Cha: What means "pinty"? My english is not so good...

I would prefer a sparring weapon: as I said, a sword is not the proper weapons of my persona, so I would use it only in mock battles (for safety reasons) and in sparring (for training). For a parade or in the camp I would use my falchion (a machete grounded and blunted) or a footman warhammer, as a side arm, with the company's bardiches as main weapons.

For JE Sarge:

I also saw the hanwei, but I was a little worried about the blade. What we'll be the next step (in price and in value)?

Tnks for all!
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 2:49 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You should look at the Checzh makers. Good, durable, affordable... And Berbekucz and Swords-Gur also have very good, historical look.
http://www.kovexars.cz/index.php?jazyk=A&platidlo=EUR
http://www.berbekuczviktor.hu/
http://www.sword-gur.com/
http://www.wulflund.com/
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P. Cha




PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 2:55 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

opps...pointy...I meant pointy and not related to a pint of beer in any shape or form Happy .

The hanwei tinkerline blunts would be a good choice. I have one of the sharps and the HT is excellent on that sword. The edge is horrible...but as this is a blunt, the edge doesn't matter hehe. I'm probably gonna order the blunt version of my sword in the next few months actually as I need a new training sword anyways. Technically, I shouldn't have gotten the sharp one first since my training sword is currently dead :P .
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P. Cha




PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 2:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
You should look at the Checzh makers. Good, durable, affordable... And Berbekucz and Swords-Gur also have very good, historical look.
http://www.kovexars.cz/index.php?jazyk=A&platidlo=EUR
http://www.berbekuczviktor.hu/
http://www.sword-gur.com/
http://www.wulflund.com/


Those seem pointy to me...i.e. not so good for sparring. Good for re-enactment though...but not so much for sparring. And a review at the SBG of the gur sword does say it is very stiff...probably too stiff for safe sparring.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 3:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

In the past I contacted both Kovex -Arsand Berbekucz and they are all responsive to your needs. If you want more rounded tip, they will make it more rounded. But stiff they are, yes.
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William Goodwin




Location: Roanoke,Va
Joined: 17 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 3:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

another vote for the CAS/Hanwei practical series. For the money, they are hard to beat. Most all of
our study group uses the practical h&h without a lot of trouble (one had some tempering issues, but thats it) and have held up rather nicely...again for the money. Next step up would be the Hanwei Tinker or Del-Tin. With the exchange rate at present, Armour Class of Scotland is surely another great option to look at.


cheers,

Bill

Roanoke Sword Guilde

roanokeswordguilde@live.com
"I was born for this" - Joan of Arc
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 4:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The next step up, at least over here, would be the Hanwei Tinkers and VA Practicals; as initially mentioned. Of the two, I'd lean more toward the Tinker models because their edge and tips are a little more geared toward WMA activities, whereas the VA ATrim blunts have too thin an edge for me to be comforable with without wearing a fair amount of armor. I've seen people use Del Tins, Darkswords, and Windlasses that are unsharpened (1-2mm edges) for light contact, but the pointy end can make a mess of things fast and throw safety out the window. Even a somewhat rounded tip can still easily penetrate its mark with enough energy behind it during an energetic sparring match or minor slip.

Across the pond, you guys have plenty of good smiths making quality stuff - as mentioned above. You might really want to look at those resources in detail and make some inquiries to see if they can craft something suited to exactly what you want.

Good luck in your search.

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 4:45 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i would say look up Lutel, Armour Class or Paul Binns since you are a reenactor and need the use of a blunt. They are also located in England and the Cheq. All 3 brands can be made to both look like a sword of the period and still have a blunt edge for fighting.
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Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
Joined: 02 Sep 2008

Posts: 239

PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 8:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Tnks for the replies.

I think I will wait to the great gathering of Quattrocastella (22-24 may), my captain say that some of these swordsmith will be here.
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Bill Tsafa




Location: Brooklyn, NY
Joined: 20 May 2004

Posts: 599

PostPosted: Thu 05 Feb, 2009 11:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think you can go any cheaper for a decent blunt then the Hanwei Practical swords. The steel is a little on the soft side. $100 to $130 depending on shipping costs.

If you can spend $200 to $250 I suggest you look at Alchem. The steel is much better then Hanwei.

Here are my blunts:
http://mysite.verizon.net/tsafa1/rapier/alchemlongsword.html

No athlete/youth can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows: he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack... then he will be ready for battle.
Roger of Hoveden, 1174-1201
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www.poconogym.com


Last edited by Bill Tsafa on Sat 07 Feb, 2009 5:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Reece Nelson




Location: Overland Park KS
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 257

PostPosted: Fri 06 Feb, 2009 10:48 am    Post subject: practical sword         Reply with quote

My Yeomen group use hanwei hand and a half swords and there perfect for reenactors!

There handling is great! There completely blunt and extremely light (meaning better control, especially for free sparing)

As long as you don't swing with full force and pull you're shots they can last a long time. I found the best place to get them for real cheap is here. http://kultofathena.com/product~item~PC2106~n...+Sword.htm
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J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Feb, 2009 3:01 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are looking for early 1200 then the Hanwei/CasIberia single-hand sword looks right for you.
http://www.casiberia.com/product_details.asp?id=SH2046

It's easy enough to recommend something more expensive, but it sounds like this is your budget right now and you have lots of years ahead of you to get something better.

One plus of this line is that they have surprisingly good scabbards. At least the ones I saw had wooden cores that fit very nicely. Often you don't get this on swords that cost quite a bit more.
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Fri 06 Feb, 2009 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Their scabbards are not wooden anymore, but of fiberglass.
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P. Cha




PostPosted: Fri 06 Feb, 2009 3:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

And the throat piece has some issues currently as it encircles the blade in metal which has a nasty habit of making a screeching sound as you draw.
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J.D. Crawford




Location: Toronto
Joined: 25 Dec 2006

Spotlight topics: 1
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PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb, 2009 1:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Luka Borscak wrote:
Their scabbards are not wooden anymore, but of fiberglass.


Sigh, 'progress' in the industrial age ain't always a good thing.
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Tim Seaton




Location: San Jose calif
Joined: 30 Jul 2005

Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sat 07 Feb, 2009 11:21 pm    Post subject: blunts         Reply with quote

I have the Tinker /Han long sword blunt and its fantastic ,amazing sparring all around a pleaser to wield,
B-K-S Baltimore Knife and Sword, are amazing reenacting,sparing swords .great balance,and u cant hurt them no matter how hard u beat them
To me one of the best swords for the money
Lutel is another well built and great to spar with well worth the money in every way.
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Gabriele A. Pini




Location: Olgiate Comasco, Como
Joined: 02 Sep 2008

Posts: 239

PostPosted: Sun 08 Feb, 2009 11:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yesterday at the fairy of Bellinzona a person asked me an advice about the first sword for his son: there was only a vendor with some "serious" medieval weapons, and they were all hanwei. He buyed the "practical knightly sword", and it was as I expected, not too bad, for its price. The blade is even now a little rovinated from the sparring, but for the rest is as good as you can get without spent a pint of blood, well balanced and with a realistic feeling (meaning, no visibles bolt and no absurd inscription), if not completely historical.

Moreover I have discovered the reality of a saying: "You buy the first sword with the heart, and a little with the ass". On of the first the company buyed some four years ago, with a proud inscription "Excalibur" yesterday was cleaved in half, courtesy of its pig iron structure... Now we plan to ground it in a knife, to display how sword broken sword were "recycled".
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