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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Thu 22 Jan, 2009 4:40 pm    Post subject: A question about leg armor and boots...         Reply with quote

I've been doing a little research on creating a late 14th C German harness. I've seen more than a few people at period events wear plate leg armor to below the knee, then tuck the lower part of the knee cop into a knee or thigh length boot.

Is there a historical precedent for this or is it a modern adaptation for some purpose? If it is historical, what periods/cultures was it prevalent in?

Thanks in advance for your input! Big Grin

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Chris Arrington





Joined: 06 Apr 2007

Posts: 115

PostPosted: Fri 23 Jan, 2009 7:35 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Johnathan,

Like this?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0850453348/re...eader-link

I've remember seeing it on this book, but Osprey is not always 100%. Hopefully some others can chime in.
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James Barker




Location: Ashburn VA
Joined: 20 Apr 2005

Posts: 365

PostPosted: Fri 23 Jan, 2009 7:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It is a reenactor thing. Tall boots are not even seen in historical art until the early 15th century anyway so I would not do such a thing in the 14th century at all.

“Stepping Through Time” has some great examples of boots that reach above the ankle several inches for 14th century; most are toggle or side lace and none of them look all that comfortable for use with greaves. I stick with shoes when I armor up.

James Barker
Historic Life http://www.historiclife.com/index.html
Archer in La Belle Compagnie http://www.labelle.org/
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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Fri 23 Jan, 2009 11:22 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. I'll stick with a period ankle boot / low shoe and wear the complete greave then. I just wanted to make sure before looking further at the 'armor in the boot' option.
J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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Location: Ramona CA USA
Joined: 22 Jan 2004

Posts: 129

PostPosted: Fri 23 Jan, 2009 12:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

James is on track with shoes and armour. I would certainly agree that knee or thigh high boots weren't seen worn with harness in the 14th and most of the 15th centuries. It is seen sometimes in the 16th. I would argue that tall boots were likely seen in a hunting context in the later 14th century, but this is a different application than while armed.

If you arm in full plate of knightly fashion, your harness should include greaves, and their closeness of fit will likely determine whether shoes or boots are appropriate. Some greaves' fit requires shoes, while others might allow for a short ankle boot. Some of this partly depends on period you're doing as well. The closure of the footwear is also affected by the greave fit, as different closures have different bulk, with small buckles or thin lacing being the lowest profile, toggles and bulky knotted ties being usually inappropriate for use with greaves.

I myself have greaves that fit closer than they really should, so I can only wear one very specific pattern of turnshoes with my armour, and they have very low profile buckles, as do my spurs which go under my greaves as well. Anything different would be uncomfortable around my ankles.

Also remember when thinking of full plate wear, the guys who wore full plate traveled on horseback, not on foot in the march, so their equipment was arranged with that assumption. Some fought on foot, but traveled to the battle on horseback, so they didn't need to walk for miles in the shoes they wore with their harness.

Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
WorldJoust Tournaments™
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Martin Wallgren




Location: Bjästa, Sweden
Joined: 01 Mar 2004

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Posts: 620

PostPosted: Fri 23 Jan, 2009 1:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

What about wearing them Full up and under the armour. Would save me alot of hosen to do that. The armour eats hose.
Swordsman, Archer and Dad
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
Industry Professional



Location: Ramona CA USA
Joined: 22 Jan 2004

Posts: 129

PostPosted: Fri 23 Jan, 2009 2:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Martin Wallgren wrote:
What about wearing them Full up and under the armour. Would save me alot of hosen to do that. The armour eats hose.


Then you need better leg armour............

...........and properly fitting let armour shouldn't allow for tall boots to be worn underneath. Leg harness should fit like a second skin when done properly. It shouldn't be so loose that it flops all about and clanks when you move.

Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
WorldJoust Tournaments™
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