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Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jan, 2009 8:05 am    Post subject: migration period arms and armour         Reply with quote

hello to all,
im lookin to compile a list of all the types of weapons and armour used in europe and in the near east during this period. as well as links for info on them and places to go to buy these items. any help that can be offered will be a huge help. thank you all and i hope i can get plenty of info on this

for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
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Lafayette C Curtis




Location: Indonesia
Joined: 29 Nov 2006
Reading list: 7 books

Posts: 2,689

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jan, 2009 11:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

"All" might be a bit to ambitious. You probably should pick a more specific starting point, study that part until you're satisfied, and then start studying others (especially the ones most closely related to your initial focus) once you're done with it.
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Patryk Nieczarowski
Industry Professional



Location: Poland
Joined: 20 Jan 2008

Posts: 135

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jan, 2009 11:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hello Nathan F

check this :
http://schnucks0.free.fr/forum/

this is French forum about Late Roman and Migration Period Age

there's fantastic colection of the helmets and arms and other things in this subject ...but first You must to make registration - it's simply there

http://www.artmajeur.com/en/artist/nieczar/collections
http://www.facebook.com/nieczar
http://www.nieczar.com
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Jeroen Zuiderwijk
Industry Professional



Location: Netherlands
Joined: 11 Mar 2005

Spotlight topics: 2
Posts: 740

PostPosted: Mon 19 Jan, 2009 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: migration period arms and armour         Reply with quote

Nathan F wrote:
hello to all,
im lookin to compile a list of all the types of weapons and armour used in europe and in the near east during this period. as well as links for info on them and places to go to buy these items. any help that can be offered will be a huge help. thank you all and i hope i can get plenty of info on this

Unfortunately that's not quite that simple Happy Even with all the combined knowledge of the people of the various forums dealing with this, who each have spend years and years of research we still have a lot of learning to do on the subject. There are a whole bunch of websites as well as articles here, but I'm afraid you're going to have to a fair bit of research yourself. I could give a rough outline that's a beginning, but for that you'd have to pick a specific place and period first (things change a lot from century to century). And as for buying reproductions, you have to consider the purpose, and how accurate you want it to be. There are cheap reproductions that are at best very crude representations to very fine reproductions that are virtually indistinguishable if place next to the original (when new naturally). For the latter, you'd have to keep in mind there are very few people who can do it, with waiting lists of multiple years and prices for which you can afford a decent car, or if you get a complete outfit possibly even as much as a nice house. Then there's also the problem that a lot of artifacts have not yet been reproduced at all, due to either poor availability of knowledge or simply nobody having made the choice to do so. The migration period is only recently starting to get much attention, some years ago there was virtually nothing available on the subject yet.

Jeroen Zuiderwijk
- Bronze age living history in the Netherlands
- Barbarian metalworking
- Museum photos
- Zip-file with information about saxes
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Reading list: 3 books

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Posts: 1,435

PostPosted: Mon 19 Jan, 2009 3:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Where on earth can you find a full harness costing 300,000USD (price of a "nice" house)? That seems a bit of an overstatement...

M.

This space for rent or lease.
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,395

PostPosted: Mon 19 Jan, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

M. Eversberg II wrote:
Where on earth can you find a full harness costing 300,000USD (price of a "nice" house)? That seems a bit of an overstatement...

M.


Well, depending on the three most important factors in real estate (location, location, location!), and your definition of "nice", a house can cost a lot less than $300,000. A good hauberk of mail with punched and riveted links from wrought iron might run $50,000 itself--and I know someone who bought a little place in Pennsylvania last year for less than that. Add a pattern-welded sword with gold and garnet inlay, gilded iron and bronze helmet with mail neckguard, silver-inlay spearhead, hand-woven clothing, etc. Yeah, closer to "house" than "car"!

Of course, not everyone goes to that sort of detail, and it's possible to get a quite decent-looking impression for a lot less. Part of the problem, as has been said, is the lack of good research. Sure, you can find a few very nice surviving Migration Era helmets, but the dates may be very uncetain and they might not be from the area you want to portray. You start to think "No wonder they call it the Dark Ages..." (We get the same problem in the Bronze Age!)

But on the original question, a lot depends (similarly) on how detailed you want to get. Not to mention whether you plan to make an illustrated website showing all the artifacts, in which case you are talking a LOT of time, money, and effort trying to convince book authors and museums to let you use their photographs for the purpose. (Good luck with that...) If you just want a basic list, it's a lot easier, i.e., a few types of spangenhelm, the general styles of mailshirts seen in illustrations, what types of sword blades and hilts, etc. Personally, I'd love to see a nice Migration era website, even one that's really just introductory, giving an idea of what's been found where with as many dates as possible. Just watch out for them copyrights!

Valete,

Matthew
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M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Reading list: 3 books

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Posts: 1,435

PostPosted: Mon 19 Jan, 2009 4:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These guys *might* help at least a little:

http://www.regia.org/

M.

This space for rent or lease.
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Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

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Posts: 141

PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan, 2009 3:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

well i will start of country by country and see what people know im tryin to gather what knowledge i can and have done a good bit of reseach but it is often contradictory. ok well lets start at the west and work our way east period i shall go for 9th to 11th century. starting first with britian scotland wales and ireland. any help is appericated this is so i can try trace the warfare across europe in this period nad trace its evoultion. after these are covered i will move south then east and do it country by country. all the help i can get will be great
cheers guys

for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
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Matthew Amt




Location: Laurel, MD, USA
Joined: 17 Sep 2003

Posts: 1,395

PostPosted: Tue 20 Jan, 2009 8:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Oh! I think we need to define some terms, here, because 9th century is well *after* the Migration era! I was thinking more like 4th to 6th centuries (not sure what the standard parameters are, oddly enough!). Also still not sure if you just want to gather tidbits for your own edification, or if you are planning a guide of some sort for others to use.

Matthew
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Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2009 1:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

yeah sorry on that the definitions for the period are really quite broad and it is for my use whichi hope to evolve into a booklet for my reenactment group
for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
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David McElrea




Location: Canada
Joined: 26 Nov 2003

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PostPosted: Wed 21 Jan, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Nathan,

I have to concur with Matthew here. The Migration Period may be broad, but the 9th to 11th centuries are a bit late for inclusion therein. I think you need to decide on one or the other-- i.e. are you wanting to zero in on the Migration Period or on the 9th to 11th centuries. It'll save you a lot of time and confusion.
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David Huggins




Location: UK
Joined: 25 Jul 2007

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Thu 22 Jan, 2009 12:11 am    Post subject: Migration Period         Reply with quote

Hi Nathan

If what you wish is a very simple guide for the 'early medieval period' say 6th C to11th C,i hy not consider breaking down the time frame into 'very early', 'early', ''middle', 'late' and 'very late' and by culture, Anglo-Saxon, Irish, Welsh, Scots, Viking, Norman and also Hiberno-Norse ,Anglo-Scandinavian etc.

This would be very similair to the guides provided by yhe larger period re-enactment groups in the U.K.

For example for 'very early' you would include boar crested helms, thigh length unsplit mail shirt, migration period sword, angons, fracisca, round shield, cone and nippled bosses ect

For 'very late',you would include say one piece nasal helm, split fore and aft mail huberk with or with out integral coif, kite shield, brazil nut pommel sword, trilobate sword, Dane axe, mace etc

This is a very broad and generalised method but can be further refined by splitting it up into cultures and what is and what is not acceptable for the given sub-period.

This will help if you are hired by a client with a specific date line for their event in mind.

if it is a ilists of traders you want drop us a pm. and I'll help as much as I can.

best wishes
Dave

and he who stands and sheds blood with us, shall be as a brother.
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Nathan F




Location: ireland
Joined: 24 Dec 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Sat 24 Jan, 2009 3:47 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

well that sounds like a good idea you see i have alot of people who have interest in this period but my knowledge is only in scandanavian cultures i know nothing of elsewhere in europe at this time.
ok well how about i split this into early being late migration period late being just before norman conquest and mid being viking settlement period in between these.
so i am aiming to get info across the board on europe
ok so lets start with my suggestion for "early" and see how that goes so any info on weapons and warfare of this period in the area of the british isles please do help
regards
nathan

for here starts war carrion birds sing, and grey wolves howl
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David Huggins




Location: UK
Joined: 25 Jul 2007

Posts: 490

PostPosted: Sun 25 Jan, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject: Migration Period arms and armour         Reply with quote

Hi again Nathan,

try to obtain a copy of 'Ancient Weapons in Britain' by Logan Thompson, published 2004 Pen & Sword Press, this is a good 'opener' for the general reader surveying the arms used by the Late Romano British, Anglo -Saxons and Vikings and also looks closely at some notable swords in more detail.

best
Dave

and he who stands and sheds blood with us, shall be as a brother.
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