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Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
Joined: 07 Oct 2008

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PostPosted: Sun 07 Dec, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Damascus Viking Sword by Depeeka         Reply with quote

Hi Yall,
Wuz looking around and saw sum pics of a damascus Viking sword by Depeeka, they look cool but are they any good? Are they like an MRL sword or an Albion sword???
Thanx in advance
Z[/u]
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Mike Arledge




Location: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 05 Feb 2006
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Posts: 434

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 4:02 am    Post subject: Re: Damascus Viking Sword by Depeeka         Reply with quote

Zach Gordon wrote:
Hi Yall,
Wuz looking around and saw sum pics of a damascus Viking sword by Depeeka, they look cool but are they any good? Are they like an MRL sword or an Albion sword???
Thanx in advance
Z[/u]


I have not handled them, but it is my understanding they are very bulky, and likely unsafe for cutting. Pretty though.

Mike J Arledge

The Dude Abides
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David Wilson




Location: In a van down by the river
Joined: 23 Aug 2003

Posts: 798

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have not handled the Deepeeka Damascus swords, but I have handled other Deepeeka swords. Deepeeka swords in general tend to be pretty much "bottom of the barrel" in the production sword world in terms of overall quality. They tend to be overweight, and usually have a "clunky" blade-heavy feel. Some do look good, and would be good for display, costume, or reenactment (so long as there is no "combat" involved).
I am doubly concerned over the "damascus" blades; cheap damascus tends to have issues such as carbon migration that basically weakens the blade; plus, cheap third-world damascus also tends to be poorly tempered, in my experience (the two issues may be related, I don't know).

I think MRL's Windlass swords would be superior in most ways to Deepeeka swords.
Deepeeka swords are in no way comparable to Albion swords. They are pretty much polar opposites in terms of quality.

David K. Wilson, Jr.
Laird of Glencoe

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JE Sarge
Industry Professional



PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 4:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Save your money.

Deepeeka is cac for the most part. For a little more, you can get into Windlass/MRL, better Hanwei, or the newer CF/AT Valiant stuff. And, for a little more than that, you can get into a gently used Del Tin or entry level Squire Albion.

J.E. Sarge
Crusader Monk Sword Scabbards and Customizations
www.crusadermonk.com

"But lack of documentation, especially for such early times, is not to be considered as evidence of non-existance." - Ewart Oakeshott
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Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
Joined: 07 Oct 2008

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Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 5:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

i have the albion hersir, but it isn't very accurate. most viking swords were damascus and had decoration, the decoration thing doesn't bother me too much but the mono-steel blade does. I would like a better one like a Patrick Barta or a Vince Evans but haven't the time or money, $1500 would be my absolute max.
the cas/hanwei godfred is not historical at all
the MRL i don't know about I've been burned by MRL before
the cas/hanwei trodenhiem is so obviously a one peice pommel and doesn't even look that great.
ive never seen a depeeka in person but it looked good, guess thats out too...
who else is there?
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Philip C. Ryan




Location: Omaha, NE
Joined: 04 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
most viking swords were damascus


Sorry to veer a bit off topic here, but I just wanted to clarify some info for you (I am a very active Viking Age enthusiast). Most Viking Age northern european blades were actually pattern welded, not damascus steel. Pattern welding is taking different qualities of iron, then forge welding them together, resulting in a flexible core. Then, a steel edge was forge welded on to hold the sharpness. Actual Damascus steel was used in the Middle East (appx. the same time frame and later), and was a specific way the steel was mixed in the crucible, forming a specific alloy (very similar to Wootz steel). It would occasionally show a swirled pattern depending on how well the molten steel was mixed. Now, most people tend to misuse the term damascus, and use it to refer to any type of knife/sword showing a swirled and/or layered pattern. Just thought I would clarify so you know exactly what to look for if you are going to drop that sizable a sum of money on a good blade.

I would have to second what JE Sarge wrote, and advise you to go for a better blade. While Albions do not have a pattern welded blade, they do mirror actual archaeological finds closer than other manufacturers (unless you go the complete custom built route, of course). If you want as accurate as possible, your only option is a custom smith and a wait of well over a year, typically.

Skjaldborg Viking Age Living History and Martial Combat
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Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 7:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

SO damascus and pattern welded arn't the same thing Eek! I appolagize for my ignorance. I have the albion hersir and it is nice but I wanted sumthing with a pattern welded blade, there isn't anything of albion quality but with a pattern welded blade? I don't have the time or money to go full custom.
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Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

so wud this sword be damascus or pattern welded?
http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/124-viking_...hilt-v.jpg
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Not all Viking swords were pattern-welded and not all had inlaid hilt decoration. It varied by era and area. Check out Ian Peirce's Swords of the Viking Age, it shows both.

Good pattern-welding is pretty much something you have to get in a custom job.

Some use the terms pattern-welding and damascus interchangebly. Some reserve "damascus" for things like wootz (a crucible steel).

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Jeff Kaisla




Location: Qualicum Beach, B.C., Canada
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Zach, Damascene blades are pattern welded, but like Chad pointed out, Damascene blades often utilized wootz steel, and often the pattern of the blade was made in such a way that it resembled a ladder, which was referred to as "Mohammad's Ladder". Here is a link to some Eastern Damascus Pattern welded blades....the second blade pic shows Mohammad's Ladder

http://www.persianmirror.com/community/writer...Swords.cfm
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Jared Smith




Location: Tennessee
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Dec, 2008 9:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff Kaisla wrote:
Zach, Damascene blades are pattern welded, but like Chad pointed out, Damascene blades often utilized wootz steel, and often the pattern of the blade was made in such a way that it resembled a ladder, ..


It can be even more confusing than this. The modern understanding and recreation of historical methods has changed a lot in the past 20 years. More than one type of construction (wootz, pattern welding, combinations, etc.) was practiced at the location of the city of Damascus. "Damascened" is frequently used today to describe historical blades (mono-steel or piled) that simulated either the optimal Damascus or pattern welded type appearance primarily just on the surface of the material through selective acid etching and engraving.

Wootz, Bulat, and Damascus were originally crucible cast steels that are considered to be very similar in terms of raw ore alloy qualities, smelting, and manufacturing approach. The quality of the cosmetic outcome tends to be unpredictable, even with fair modern chemistry control and understanding throughout the process. (Verhoven et. al trials, few achieving the ideal outcome.) Ideally it turns out with an exotic watery ripple looking pattern, similar to "random pattern welded" type appearance that exists throughout the entire depth of the blade material. A lot of it turns out to be somewhat "muddy looking" material with some interesting areas. Some regions enjoyed a reputation for turning out more of the phenomenal looking pieces, but, I have not seen any academically researched work that speculates the % that turned out great versus % that turned out mediocre.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Luka Borscak




Location: Croatia
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PostPosted: Tue 09 Dec, 2008 5:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Zach Gordon wrote:
so wud this sword be damascus or pattern welded?
http://www.templ.net/pics-weapons/124-viking_...hilt-v.jpg


Yes, this is pattern welded sword. I think there is one pattern welded viking sword on stock at Armart website but it is expensive.
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Richard Hare




Location: Alberta, canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2008

Posts: 135

PostPosted: Tue 09 Dec, 2008 6:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It should also be noted that in the later Viking age, good steel was being produced so there was no need for pattern welding. Many later blades were made this way....though they did lack the beautiful figure of the former blades!

Cheers,
R.
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