Info Favorites Register Log in
myArmoury.com Discussion Forums

Forum index Memberlist Usergroups Spotlight Topics Search
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > How and what to cut Reply to topic
This is a standard topic  
Author Message
Phil Thomas




Location: Secret Town
Joined: 24 Apr 2008

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: How and what to cut         Reply with quote

Hi everyone,
I bought myself a Arms and Armor medeival sword this last summer and want to do all this cutting stuff that you all talk about here. But what do I cut and where do I get these things? I am a completey new to cutting only have swords for show not for go. I dont want to break or damage the sword but want to enjoy it more than hanging on my room wall. Do I need to concern about polishing and fixing after?
I also have Museum Replicas' viking sword and their "TOWTON" sword. Is it ok to cut with too? They arent sharp tho rather blunt.
thanx

Thank goodness we don't live in medieval times, when people fought wars over ideas
//Wojciech Jaruzelski
View user's profile Send private message
Gabriel Lebec
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: NY, NY
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Reading list: 32 books

Posts: 419

PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

People use a variety of cutting materials. One of the simpler ideas that seems popular is empty plastic bottles filled with water. Another common target is so-called "pool noodles," foam cylinders you can buy at any place that sells pool toys. In Japanese arts, we use rolled and soaked tatami mats, and sometimes bamboo. These require more preparation / cleanup than bottles or noodles, but have their attractions. They can be ordered online.

Any cutting practice will eventually wear the finish on a sword blade in direct relation to how hard your cutting target is. Depending on the blade's current finish, this can stand out, be barely noticeable, be easy to repair, or be very expensive to repair. For instance, Albion swords have a satin finish that will not show much wear and can be restored with a bit of steel wool. Japanese nihonto and many Japanese-style swords usually have a very specialized polish that is not as easily restored. In the end it is up to you as to whether your intent is to keep the sword in pristine collector's condition, or to have fun with it and accept a bit of mild wear. Such wear doesn't necessarily look bad, keep in mind, and although you should always be honest about use/nonuse if you resell, it doesn't necessarily kill the resale value. Always clean the blade after practice, especially if you cut organic materials like tatami.

As long as safe practices are observed, both you and the sword should be OK. Normal cutting practice is unlikely to "break or damage" the sword unless it is badly made or not meant to be functional in the first place. Arms & Armor and Windlass (Museum Replicas) both make swords that are meant to be used, so that should be alright.

Usually any kind of cutting practice is best performed under instruction, but if such is unavailable, at least make sure you are cutting safely. Have someone else nearby ready to call 911, and make sure everyone is well out of range before any cutting/swinging/etc. Keep first aid supplies handy. Start with easy targets/setups and remain aware of your surroundings. Many like to wear protective equipment such as gloves (or even full harness!).

Some kinds of targets are less recommendable. I personally don't like cutting any kind of fruit or plant that still has juice/sap/whatever; it's tougher to clean and quick to stain. Of course, it can be a lot of fun as well. Wink Swords are not meant to cut hard targets like tree branches, metal, concrete (!), etc.... such practice is often referred to as "torture testing" and is usually meant either as a flashy demonstration, a test to see how far a blade can be pushed before breaking, or just ignorant abuse.

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science." - Albert Einstein
________


Last edited by Gabriel Lebec on Sat 06 Dec, 2008 5:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
View user's profile Send private message
Chad Arnow
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Cincinnati, OH
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 21 pages
Reading list: 231 books

Spotlight topics: 15
Posts: 9,131

PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2008 2:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Phil,
Hello and welcome to myArmoury.com. Happy There are many easily findable test-cutting targets. Many people simply take empty soda bottles and milk jugs, fill them with water and cut away. I do a lot of cutting with foam pool noodles, the long foam flotation devices kids play with in pools. This time of year, they can be pretty cheap, as they're out of season. I cut them in half so they don't bend so much when struck. That makes them easier to cut.

Watermelons, cantaloupes, pumpkins, etc. can also be good.

Others use straw mats. CAS Iberia now deals in them, and vendors like Kult of Athena stock them. They're generally more expensive than noodles or fruit but may offer a more realistic picture of what a sword can do.

The main things to remember are to always practice common sense when handling weapons and when you're around others who are handling weapons. Try to find a way to set up your target so you don't damage your sword in bad cuts. For example, you don't want to cut clean through a pumpkin then hit concrete post it's resting on. Happy Wipe off anything your target leaves on your blade quickly and completely.

MRL swords aren't sharp but are decent enough to do some damage to most targets. I've coat foam noodles with a Towton and other MRL swords before.

Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Gabriel Lebec
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: NY, NY
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Reading list: 32 books

Posts: 419

PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

PS - A quick Forum Search yielded many applicable threads, including the following:

What are the best things to cut
Tatami cutting - surprising results
Cutting Stand and Cutting Results

I'm sure you can find more with some clever search strings.

Have fun,
-GLL

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science." - Albert Einstein
________
View user's profile Send private message
Jonathan Atkin





Joined: 04 Jul 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 90

PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2008 3:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I was wandering about this subject. Though in regards to what a XIII (Albion) can safely cut since that is there purpose.Things stated above I know it will have no trouble with. Though for the sake of arguement say you go to a butcher shop and get a pigs head or something along those lines how do you think the type XIII will handle?
"If I must choose between righteousness and peace, I choose righteousness''. - Theodore Roosevelt
View user's profile Send private message
Zach Gordon




Location: Vermont. USA
Joined: 07 Oct 2008

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 213

PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Keep in mind cutting can dammage your sword especially if it isn't very sharp I once was using an MRL sword and the first time I used it I tried to cut a pumpkin and the hilt got all loose and started making noise when swung.
View user's profile Send private message
Bill Tsafa




Location: Brooklyn, NY
Joined: 20 May 2004

Posts: 599

PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Zach Gordon wrote:
Keep in mind cutting can dammage your sword especially if it isn't very sharp I once was using an MRL sword and the first time I used it I tried to cut a pumpkin and the hilt got all loose and started making noise when swung.


That is actually pretty standard for Windlass swords. I have heard that story from a lot of people. They do a very weak peening job and the grip is not well fitted to the tang so it rolls. They rattle so much you might think they came off a GM assembly line.

No athlete/youth can fight tenaciously who has never received any blows: he must see his blood flow and hear his teeth crack... then he will be ready for battle.
Roger of Hoveden, 1174-1201
www.poconoshooting.com
www.poconogym.com
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website AIM Address
Joe Fults




Location: Midwest
Joined: 02 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,417

PostPosted: Sat 06 Dec, 2008 11:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jonathan Atkin wrote:
I was wandering about this subject. Though in regards to what a XIII (Albion) can safely cut since that is there purpose.Things stated above I know it will have no trouble with. Though for the sake of arguement say you go to a butcher shop and get a pigs head or something along those lines how do you think the type XIII will handle?


If you want to search you can find reference to people cutting things like pork shoulders here and there on the various sword discussion boards. In general well made swords are none the worse for wear from it.

"Our life is what our thoughts make it"
-Marcus Aurelius

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-John F. Kennedy
View user's profile Send private message
Phil Thomas




Location: Secret Town
Joined: 24 Apr 2008

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun 28 Dec, 2008 3:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm back after a long holidays break! Thanks you all for the input. Im almost confident now but I had some times to cut cardboard boxes that presnts were wrapped in over the holidays and the efficiency of the blade almost scares me! maybe I shouldn't have jmped the gun and cut without first reading all these posts.........

Let me get a few things straight: for the museum replicas' swords i should sharpen them first right? If I dont I risk injury to myself or sword damage is that correct?

Also where do you buy pool noodles? What are their purpose?? floaties? Not that its important just curious.

Can you give an honest opinion if wether I should just use the arms and armor sword to cut and maybe keep the museum replicas' swords as decoration.

Thank goodness we don't live in medieval times, when people fought wars over ideas
//Wojciech Jaruzelski
View user's profile Send private message
M. Eversberg II




Location: California, Maryland, USA
Joined: 07 Sep 2006
Reading list: 3 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,435

PostPosted: Sun 28 Dec, 2008 8:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

MRL has a fairly poor QC department. I'd continue to save and get one of the new Tinker / Hanwei line of swords over one of those.

A pool noodle is those foam tube things you see in the pool isle in stores. They float and don't seem to actually have a purpose to them.

M.

This space for rent or lease.
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger ICQ Number
R.K. Williams




Location: South West Indiana
Joined: 20 Aug 2006

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Sun 28 Dec, 2008 9:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Phil, I'd use the MRLs for cutting if you can get them sharpened. I've done some cutting with a couple of their shorter models and have seen others cut with some of the longer ones with good success.
Which viking do you have?

"Vivre et laisser vivre", R.K.
View user's profile Send private message
Phil Thomas




Location: Secret Town
Joined: 24 Apr 2008

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon 29 Dec, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I alraedy have a good quality sword from Arms and Armor that will cut great. I was only concerned about the Museum Replicas' swords. I have the damascus viking sword and the Norse. I'm happy with the quality of them was just wondering if I should sharpen and how to do so without screwing it up. I will use the arms and Armor to cut this weekend but wait on the museum replicas' ones until i sharpen them.
Does it make sense to take the Museum Replicas' swords to a tool sharpener or professional of some kind? Or can i just "touch them up" with a wet stone?

Thank goodness we don't live in medieval times, when people fought wars over ideas
//Wojciech Jaruzelski
View user's profile Send private message
R.K. Williams




Location: South West Indiana
Joined: 20 Aug 2006

Posts: 5

PostPosted: Mon 29 Dec, 2008 6:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I don't think a tool sharpener is a good idea. It takes some effort to sharpen one, a file and some whetstones, or sandpaper. I'm not real good at it myself. There are several tutorials around.
As has already been mentioned, the fittings could become loose with use. If so this can usually be fixed. A sword is to be used in my opinion. Of course if you want a pristine show piece, probably best not to use them.

"Vivre et laisser vivre", R.K.
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,144

PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec, 2008 12:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Phil Thomas wrote:

Does it make sense to take the Museum Replicas' swords to a tool sharpener or professional of some kind? Or can i just "touch them up" with a wet stone?


A tool sharpener of modern tools or a kitchen cutlery sharpener is not a specialist in sword sharpening in a way that is historical or even respectful of a pricey collectable that has been made to be as close as possible to a period piece.

At best they will grind away and produce a sharp edges sword but with little or no concern for aesthetics or for marring the finish of the sword: A big scratch on the main bevel will mean noting to them and if you complain about it they will probably look at you with a puzzled look on their face and show you how well the sword will shave hair on their arm ! The fact that the edge may be all wavy and that the secondary bevels may be very irregular in width won't even be on their radar as a problem.

Even worse if the sword type is meant to have a blended apple seed type of edge bevel as opposed to a defined secondary bevel. At best you might get a good secondary bevel.

Imagine the " Horror " of handing your sword to this respected " professional " tool sharpener and see him turn around to a bench grinder with a coarse and wildly vibrating grinding wheel and not be able to stop him in time as you see a huge shower of spark as he take off 1/16" of blade width on each side of the blade. Eek! WTF?! Happened to me " ONCE " with a collectable knife as the guy completely ruined the shape of the blade profile and turned a strait edge into deeply recurved edge. Evil Sad Cry

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message
Bryce Felperin




Location: San Jose, CA
Joined: 16 Feb 2006

Posts: 552

PostPosted: Tue 30 Dec, 2008 10:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Phil Thomas wrote:

Does it make sense to take the Museum Replicas' swords to a tool sharpener or professional of some kind? Or can i just "touch them up" with a wet stone?


A tool sharpener of modern tools or a kitchen cutlery sharpener is not a specialist in sword sharpening in a way that is historical or even respectful of a pricey collectable that has been made to be as close as possible to a period piece.

At best they will grind away and produce a sharp edges sword but with little or no concern for aesthetics or for marring the finish of the sword: A big scratch on the main bevel will mean noting to them and if you complain about it they will probably look at you with a puzzled look on their face and show you how well the sword will shave hair on their arm ! The fact that the edge may be all wavy and that the secondary bevels may be very irregular in width won't even be on their radar as a problem.

Even worse if the sword type is meant to have a blended apple seed type of edge bevel as opposed to a defined secondary bevel. At best you might get a good secondary bevel.

Imagine the " Horror " of handing your sword to this respected " professional " tool sharpener and see him turn around to a bench grinder with a coarse and wildly vibrating grinding wheel and not be able to stop him in time as you see a huge shower of spark as he take off 1/16" of blade width on each side of the blade. Eek! WTF?! Happened to me " ONCE " with a collectable knife as the guy completely ruined the shape of the blade profile and turned a strait edge into deeply recurved edge. Evil Sad Cry


Definitely a good word of warning from Jean here. I had two premium Benchmade knives I gave to a guy to sharpen. I cam back and found out that he used a course grinding wheel to sharpen them to a shallow bevel that not only left tool marks, but destroyed any asthetic value the knives had to begin with. It looked absolutely horrible and cost me $360 in quality knives for a $20 sharpening. I could of spent the same $20 and shipped them to Benchmade to be sharpened by them for FREE! Lesson learned by me.

So either learn how to do it yourself after practicing on your non-valuable collection items, or sent it back to the manufacturer for re-sharpening. DON'T give a good piece of cutlery to someone else to sharpen unless you know they know what they're doing.

Bryce
View user's profile Send private message
Phil Thomas




Location: Secret Town
Joined: 24 Apr 2008

Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan, 2009 4:22 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I got done today with cutting all weekend and wowwwww these things are so devistatingly scary when you really start to use them!! I used the Arms and Armor medieval sword and it made quick work of all. I cut cardboard mostly and pumpkins as per suggestions here on this post. it was so much fun!!!So much fun!! I got a digicamera this xmas and once I learn to use it and everything i might cut more and take photos for all.

Are there videos of people cutting? I know my form is bad. At times I felt like I was just doing golf or baseball and taking big swings......not really appropriate for combat!

My new hobby!!

Thank goodness we don't live in medieval times, when people fought wars over ideas
//Wojciech Jaruzelski
View user's profile Send private message
Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Likes: 50 pages
Reading list: 1 book

Spotlight topics: 5
Posts: 8,144

PostPosted: Sun 04 Jan, 2009 4:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Phil Thomas wrote:
I got done today with cutting all weekend and wowwwww these things are so devistatingly scary when you really start to use them!! I used the Arms and Armor medieval sword and it made quick work of all. I cut cardboard mostly and pumpkins as per suggestions here on this post. it was so much fun!!!So much fun!! I got a digicamera this xmas and once I learn to use it and everything i might cut more and take photos for all.

Are there videos of people cutting? I know my form is bad. At times I felt like I was just doing golf or baseball and taking big swings......not really appropriate for combat!

My new hobby!!


You can find cutting videos all over Youtube but here is a site that does sword reviews of usually the less expensive swords:
http://www.sword-buyers-guide.com/index.html

If you go to the various sword reviews there are often videos of cutting performance against different materials from water filled plastic bottles to mats etc ... Don't copy all the test cuttings in your own cutting " fun " as some are abusive and in some cases destructive testing to see what will " destroy " the swords in question i.e. hitting big tree branches, stumps, cement block etc ... is not recommended. Wink But still fun to watch as long as it's someone else's sword being abused. Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
View user's profile Send private message


Display posts from previous:   
Forum Index > Off-topic Talk > How and what to cut
Page 1 of 1 Reply to topic
All times are GMT - 8 Hours

View previous topic :: View next topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum






All contents © Copyright 2003-2018 myArmoury.com — All rights reserved
Discussion forums powered by phpBB © The phpBB Group
Switch to the Basic Low-bandwidth Version of the forum