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Eric Bergeron




Location: New Hampshire
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Sep, 2008 5:32 pm    Post subject: where to purchase padded jack         Reply with quote

Hello all was wondering if anyone knew of a place where I could purchase a padded jack that is of good quality.
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Jason Elrod




Location: Winchester, VA
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Sep, 2008 5:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I've heard good things about Matuls but I haven't tried them myself http://www.matuls.pl/. However I did contact them. Communication was pretty quick, plus they ask that you send them your measurements so that they can tailor fit your item.
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Brian Hook





Joined: 12 Jan 2006

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PostPosted: Wed 24 Sep, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

There is also the Padded Armour Company.
http://www.deborahloughcostumes.com/paddedarmour/paddedarmourhome
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Sep, 2008 5:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Moved to off-topic. You're asking for a suggestion on a vendor, not starting a discussion about historical arms and armour.
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Stephen Curtin




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PostPosted: Wed 24 Sep, 2008 6:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Try http://www.paddedarmour.com/ I have yet to try them myself but plan on purchasing an aketon off them soon. They look pritty good to me and do all sorts of padded armour including jacks.
Éirinn go Brách
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Stephen Curtin




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PostPosted: Wed 24 Sep, 2008 6:04 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Brian looks like you just beat me to the punch with the link to padded armour company Big Grin by the time I had finnish my post yours had just gone in. Oh well I guess great minds think alike.
Éirinn go Brách
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Eric Bergeron




Location: New Hampshire
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 12:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thanks guys for the info and thanks Nathan for pointing it to the right place I had a feeling I should post it here but wasn't sure.
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Mick Czerep




Location: Poland
Joined: 30 May 2007

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 1:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.kokoszowamanufaktura.eu/en/

http://www.medieval-market.biz/pl/towary.php?...y%20bojowe

Sordes ocurrit
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A.A. Boskaljon




Location: Utrecht, Netherlands
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 2:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jason Elrod wrote:
http://www.matuls.pl/.


I've got one made by matuls and I'm pretty satisfied by it Happy Fits great and the price is okay Happy
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

just a related point. many people sell what they call a padded jack that are not a padded jack they are more of a arming jacket.

a jack should be multi layered, ie over 20. if its 4 layers and some padding, its an arming jacket. trust me, i wear both at the same time. there is a "Stuffed jack" but again it should multi-layers besides the stuffing. if you wouldn't feel safe being shot with an arrow in it, its an arming jacket Wink hehehe
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Thu 25 Sep, 2008 10:44 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think that depends. I North England at least jacks appear to have been commonly made only with cotton wool inside the linen/canvas/whatever lining and face. This is based of a late 15th century account of an italian who was interested in English Archers. Name starts with an M I think but cannot recollect it. The idea that multilayerd jacks of great amount of linen surely was common but it does not become the only way to do. That said the amount of cotton wool or linen layers is important. When my wife makes them she makes test patches for people to see and feel the varied thickness. I would not want to be shot with a warbow in fabric armour.... or any armour really. To me the thickness defines it as an arming coat over jack as both can be made with multiple layers and still be thin depending on with what material. Avoid poly material like the plague.

RPM
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 5:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hi Randall, i know about which jack you are referring too. Happy i was just trying to point out that i see a lot of "jacks" in reenactment that aren't jacks at all. it's hard to write so I may not have explained it very good in my earlier post and to that i apologize.

ahh come on, you don't wanna be shot with an arrow? If I could trust someone to hit the jack and not my other body parts I'd trust my jack Wink it's been arrow proofed hehehe. And thats one thing that I was trying to get at, i don't like "cheating" when making a jack cause the insides are hidden Wink if your wife makes them like the true stuffed jacks than you have my total respect Happy all too many times i see reenacting pictures of either too thin or way over stuffed jacks that don't look like they would work. to me "cheating jacks" would be like having a beautiful silk velvet covered breastplate only to find out the breastplate is plastic or stainless etc hehehe.
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Glennan Carnie




Location: UK
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
ahh come on, you don't wanna be shot with an arrow? If I could trust someone to hit the jack and not my other body parts I'd trust my jack it's been arrow proofed hehehe.


What do you think Randall? Can I take that challenge? Big Grin

More seriously: Chuck, I'd like to know the spec of your jack. If possible I get a test panel of similar spec made and do some test shots against it, with 'proper' bows, not re-enactment bows
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Eric Bergeron




Location: New Hampshire
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 9:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

where'd you have your jack made Chuck? I'd love to see a picture of it as well.
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Jonathan Atkin





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PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.revivalclothing.com/index.asp i've only ever had a good exp with revival clothing
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 1:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randall Moffett wrote:
Avoid poly material like the plague.

RPM


How about one where the fill is said to be 80% wool / 20% poly blend ? Would rather avoid the poly completely but how bad is a 20% blend ? I assume that the problem is that poly doesn't breathe at all when it's at 100% and that they become very hot and sticky to wear. Wink

The outside and inner shells seem to be heavy cotton canvas.

Oh, already too late as I have already bought one but just curious about your opinion.

I also have 2 of the Revival gambison in linen and I'm happy with those: The one I just bought is very thick and I got it for sparring with steel blunts and not for under armour use. Oh, and the cost was low enough that if it's a mistake it's not a big one. Laughing Out Loud

I'm fairly sure that it's this one http://www.kultofathena.com/product~item~AB01...mbeson.htm
Although I got it locally in Montreal instead of from KoA ( Might have been better since the KoA price is lower by 30%.... ).

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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chuck,

True. One of the biggest problems is synthetic padding or batting. It looks outwardly like it is thick and densely padded but 90-99% is air. I doubt they'd stop most of anything thrust-wise though they do take a lot of the sting out so I guess they could have uses. My aketon I wear made with medium to heavy linen and with real cotton wool sandwiched in while time consuming to make and a bear to do is nice and solid. Compared to synthetic fluff is 100 times as dense and absorbs impact well. I was thinking of making some for the guys to shoot at but this year I just ran out of time. I think that we will likely make a few of them of multi-linen layers and padded and mixes.

I'd rather be in some armour than no armour if I were to be shot at don't get me wrong. Big Grin

Glennan,

I do not know. I think it only fair to let them look at the bows first then decide if they want to be shot at once there.

We should have a go on some padded armours. I will have to ask Nicole in a few weeks as she is quite busy at the moment. I'd like to see about what range this armour can withstand arrows and bolts from.

Jean,

Poly has two main issues. Synthetic batting is much more fluffy and airy compared to using real cotton, wool or left over natural fabrics. I have used those three types of fill and found them to be very good at absorbing impact, breathing and in some cases penetration. The synthetic does not breath super so it is a factor for sure but breathing issues are majorly affected by your lining and foundation as well, using natural or synthetic. Most synthetic battings are not nearly as good for defensive qualities either. They just do not have the density usually. With mixes that are that high I suppose they might work but I'd have to feel it. if you can basically push it down greatly likely not foing to stop much impact. I think at one point we came across a similar mix but I cannot remember how I felt about it. They also are much fluffier making them look thicker when it is an illusion.

RPM
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Jean Thibodeau




Location: Montreal,Quebec,Canada
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 10:38 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Randall Moffett wrote:

Jean,

Poly has two main issues. Synthetic batting is much more fluffy and airy compared to using real cotton, wool or left over natural fabrics. I have used those three types of fill and found them to be very good at absorbing impact, breathing and in some cases penetration. The synthetic does not breath super so it is a factor for sure but breathing issues are majority affected by your lining and foundation as well, using natural or synthetic. Most synthetic battings are not nearly as good for defensive qualities either. They just do not have the density usually. With mixes that are that high I suppose they might work but I'd have to feel it. if you can basically push it down greatly likely not going to stop much impact. I think at one point we came across a similar mix but I cannot remember how I felt about it. They also are much fluffier making them look thicker when it is an illusion.

RPM


I can't check it right now because they only had a " Large " in store and I ordered an " Extra Large " because the large was too tight, but one reason I decided to buy it was that the large I tried on felt very thick and stiff and at least 1/4" thick or ticker: Will have to check on this more carefully when I get mine in a few weeks.

I sort of hope the wool blend behaves much closer to pure wool than polyester as far a breathability is concerned and I guess I have a point of comparison since I have the Revival Clothing ones. The Revival ones feel warm after sparring but not stifling hot unless doing it in Summer in the Sun.

( Edited: Actually the one I tried out was XLarge and the one I ordered is XXLarge. Laughing Out Loud )

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Fri 26 Sep, 2008 11:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 10:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean,

Well I'd say with that much wool it likely will be fine but do let us know. Much of the padding fill and fabric is something I think you get used to by feel. Good luck with the padded armour.

RPM
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Sep, 2008 7:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote




heres some info that jamesb wrote up on jacks: http://www.historiclife.com/pdf/KASF2008/Jacks.pdf


my jack is home made. its 24 layers of 7+ oz linen and then quilted. it used to be very stiff, but has softened up a lot over the years. i think you can make your own jack. it just takes some time. its not hard Happy

we tested it a few years ago with some 70 lb bows with bodkins at 20 yards. it didn't go threw the front so I would have been safe (maybe a broken rib) but fairly safe hehehe. now mind you at 20 yards i seriously doubt in times of war someone would still be using a bow Wink but we wanted to get close and try it out.

heres some pics after the shooting. the first pic shows the bodkin looking like its in a lot, well thats cause the last shot someone fired made the jack fall off the haybail and land on the arrow (the arrow was vertically stuck in the ground and it still did not penetrate all of the layers)

http://www.replications.com/greys/Image%20Gal...GP1816.jpg
http://www.replications.com/greys/Image%20Gal...GP1818.jpg
http://www.replications.com/greys/Image%20Gal...GP1819.jpg
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