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G Ezell
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Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

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PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2008 12:28 am    Post subject: help with runes         Reply with quote

I'm working on a few saxes. On most of my knives I put my signature as my mark, but with these I'd like to mark them in a more appropriate manner for the time period. I'm thinking a runic inscription basically saying "George made me". A couple of problems... George was not a common name at the time, to the best of my knowledge. I'll be happy if I can get the pronunciation right, basically 'Jorj', which doesn't look that out of place... Also, the 'made me' part would need to be translated into ole Frankish, roughly 900AD.

The 'j' sound seems to be one of those runes that underwent alot of change over the years, it's been difficult to determine which rune would best fit the time and area.

I'm guessing stamping or carving the runes into the metal would be more appropriate than etching? If I had the skill, I'd inlay it... Although the blades are hardened, the backs are still fairly soft, so they should be good candidates for carving/stamping.

Any advice is welcome, I'd like to have these finished in the next week or two.
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Jeff Pringle
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Location: Oakland, CA
Joined: 19 Nov 2005

Posts: 145

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Where are you thinking in Frankland? I think north was going Dutch, south was heading towards French around 900, but I’m no philologist!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Franconian_languages

Do you know of any period runic inscriptions from the area? I suspect the nearby Danes would have the most influence, that would incline me towards the rune set attached, or similar.


I presume you’ve dug thru this site (where I got the rune image)?
http://www.arild-hauge.com/history.htm

I think all the runic inscriptions on weapons were scratched in, not even carved, except for one or two inlaid? Stamping and etching are definitely out. With the short alphabet in use, you have to make one rune stand for two or more letters, I’ll see if I can remember the rules for that. I had a Norwegian helping me figure these issues out back in the last millennium.



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G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep, 2008 11:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff Pringle wrote:
Where are you thinking in Frankland? I think north was going Dutch, south was heading towards French around 900, but I’m no philologist!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Franconian_languages

Do you know of any period runic inscriptions from the area? I suspect the nearby Danes would have the most influence, that would incline me towards the rune set attached, or similar.


Thanks for relying, Jeff. I was thinking Frankish because that's where it appears the good blades were being imported from. My own ancestry is German/French/Scottish/British/Cherokee/God -nows-what-else, I'm something of a mutt, but I think a few of my genes came from there... I've found some good information on Anglo-Saxon runes, but all the inlayed/carved/scratched inscriptions I've seen on Saxon weaponry was in Latin, with the exception of Beagnoth's seax... Danish might well be the best source.


Jeff Pringle wrote:
I presume you’ve dug thru this site (where I got the rune image)?
http://www.arild-hauge.com/history.htm

I'd not seen that one, thank you for bringing it to our attention. Digging continues...

Jeff Pringle wrote:
I think all the runic inscriptions on weapons were scratched in, not even carved, except for one or two inlaid? Stamping and etching are definitely out. With the short alphabet in use, you have to make one rune stand for two or more letters, I’ll see if I can remember the rules for that. I had a Norwegian helping me figure these issues out back in the last millennium.

Scratched? Excellent.... I may be able to manage that, heheh. Inlay is defiantly something I'd like to learn for future projects, but my timeframe for these just doesn't allow for it.

Thanks again for the information, every bit helps.
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Michael Harley




Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 12 Apr 2006

Posts: 86

PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Help with runes         Reply with quote

Hi G and all,

Your post inspired me to throw this together. Intended only as a rough guide, I hope it is of some use to you.

All the best,
Michael.



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Gavin Kisebach




Location: Lacey, Wa US
Joined: 01 Aug 2004

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Posts: 650

PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 5:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For old writing systems, I can't recommend this site enough:

http://www.ancientscripts.com/

There are only two kinds of scholars; those who love ideas and those who hate them. ~ Emile Chartier
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Sam Haverkamp
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Location: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael,
Those are great thanks so much. I know they will come in handy down the road for some of my projects.
Cheers!
Happy Sam
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Arne Focke
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Location: near Munich, Germany
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PostPosted: Sat 27 Sep, 2008 12:20 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If you are going for a very early style, i would use Latin with the runes.
In Latin "made me" would be "me fecit". A quite common inscription on all sorts of metal objects. On swords it was used even longer than on other objects, like on swords of the "Ulfberth-Era", but sadly not in runes.

So schön und inhaltsreich der Beruf eines Archäologen ist, so hart ist auch seine Arbeit, die keinen Achtstundentag kennt! (Wolfgang Kimmig in: Die Heuneburg an der oberen Donau, Stuttgart 1983)
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G Ezell
Industry Professional



Location: North Alabama
Joined: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 232

PostPosted: Sat 27 Sep, 2008 5:34 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'd feared this thread had died... Happy

Michael, that helps immensely, I cannot thank you enough.
Gavin, thank you for the website, awesome resource.

Arne, I'd considered that, and may well do it on a future project.
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Michael Harley




Location: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 12 Apr 2006

Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat 27 Sep, 2008 10:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Very glad to have been of help.

Cheers,
Michael.
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Patrik Erik Lars Lindblom




Location: Göteborg Sweden
Joined: 07 Jul 2004
Reading list: 8 books

Posts: 411

PostPosted: Sun 28 Sep, 2008 12:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Michael Harley wrote:
Very glad to have been of help.

Cheers,
Michael.

Oh yeah! Cool
Big thanks for those two pic's Michael Big Grin

Frid o Fröjd!
Patrik
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