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Brad Crisler





Joined: 06 Sep 2008

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2008 4:26 pm    Post subject: another interesting sword         Reply with quote

this is another I am considering....

obviously a composite of some sort but would you guys say the Pommel is the only thing that doesn't fit?

and would that pommel be somewhere in the neighborhood of mid 16th century?

Thanks for the expertise...

Bc



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Jeff Demetrick





Joined: 11 Oct 2004

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks like he destroyed a kaskara guard to make it look "medieval"

Jeff



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Brad Crisler





Joined: 06 Sep 2008

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2008 7:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

hmmm, jeff....

This comes from Faganarms....don't think it's that composite....

Bc
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Brad Crisler





Joined: 06 Sep 2008

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is Plate 37b from Oakeshott "Sword in the age..."

Pretty close other than the pommel:)

Plate 13 has the finials...



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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2008 7:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brad Crisler wrote:
This is Plate 37b from Oakeshott "Sword in the age..."

Pretty close other than the pommel:)

Plate 13 has the finials...


Here's a better view of that sword:


Happy

ChadA

http://chadarnow.com/
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Andrew Davis




Location: USA
Joined: 23 Apr 2005

Posts: 23

PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is beautiful!! I love the shape of the crossbar. and I actually like the pommel to, strange shaped as it may be.

I would snatch that thing up in a heartbeat.

www.MADdwarfWorkshop.com
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Jeff Demetrick





Joined: 11 Oct 2004

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2008 8:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Brad Crisler wrote:
This is Plate 37b from Oakeshott "Sword in the age..."

Pretty close other than the pommel:)

Plate 13 has the finials...


Hi Brad,

There is a better picture in The archaeology of weapons 19C. These are not the same although made to look in the style of.

All the best
Jeff
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Brad Crisler





Joined: 06 Sep 2008

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff-
So that I understand you:

You think this sword has been composed from a kaskara to resemble the oakeshott 37b?

Bc
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Jeff Demetrick





Joined: 11 Oct 2004

Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Brad,

I am reasonably sure (as sure as I can be with out having the piece in my hands) that the crossguard is from a kaskara. the grip is not 16th century. Oakshott put the similar grip on 37B on in 1961 the original is seen on 19C. The blade I cannot tell possibly 16th century may also be as late as 19th century. Do you have any measurements?Again, I would not like to bet on it unless i see it in person.
The pommel as stated is a later addition and the tang button is ridiculous.

Well that is my initial take for what it is worth..

All the Best
Jeff
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 918

PostPosted: Wed 10 Sep, 2008 1:07 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff Demetrick wrote:
Hi Brad,

I am reasonably sure (as sure as I can be with out having the piece in my hands) that the crossguard is from a kaskara. the grip is not 16th century. Oakshott put the similar grip on 37B on in 1961 the original is seen on 19C. The blade I cannot tell possibly 16th century may also be as late as 19th century. Do you have any measurements?Again, I would not like to bet on it unless i see it in person.
The pommel as stated is a later addition and the tang button is ridiculous.

Well that is my initial take for what it is worth..

All the Best
Jeff


The pommel is in baroque style, much later than the style of the hilt (renaissance).

The pommel has deeper level of consumption, while the hilt, beside being wrong in style (stiff, straight lines ... crudely made, a novice work, nothing to do with the pommel) is so quite new if compared to the age of pommel and blade, and made of a different metal from the blade (from that grayish and dull tone I would say low grade iron, apparently treated with sandpaper) .

The blade also shows a different level of pitting and use from the rest.

The pommel possibly was reused (as documented often), possibly as a weight, this would explain its deep consumption.


In short, the three elements do not match for style, grade of consumption and pitting.
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Shahril Dzulkifli




Location: Malaysia
Joined: 13 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Wed 10 Sep, 2008 2:33 am    Post subject: Another Interesting Sword         Reply with quote

You are right, Brad. This sword is from the Faganarms website and I've seen it before.
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Brad Crisler





Joined: 06 Sep 2008

Posts: 21

PostPosted: Wed 10 Sep, 2008 7:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the discussion guys...

I will probably pass on it...
In all fairness, William Fagan himself told me that I probably wouldn't be happy with it long term if my collection progressed...


Thanks again,
Bc
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 918

PostPosted: Thu 11 Sep, 2008 4:58 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

BTW

By looking at the pommel's closing cap, one will notice that time has eroded well the pommel's surface, craters are irregular and their brim is not sharp.

The pommel's surface has been clearly modeled by rust and use, showing a lack of definition in its details.

On the other hand, the cap show a neat, clean and never eroded surface, only marred by shallow, sharp and narrow lines: lines that are probably made intentionally to show some aging, to let the cap match better the pommel's age.

Naturally this could be the work of a restorer, somebody with good intentions, such as to recreate an old piece just for appearance in modern times, let's say the Victorian era in England or in Italy or Germany.

Recently I entered an arms chamber in a nineteenth century castle, a castle rebuilt in a decent manner over the ruins of the real one by an earl in the late nineteenth century.

Most pieces were covered with reddish, recent rust, with no pitting, rust, had a good appearance from a distance, most of them were actually fake.

Two zweihanders attracted my attention: the blades were heavy and crude, hilts were fancy and a bit disproportionated, but the pommels of both blades were good: as in the case of our blade in question, they were pitted irregularly, with the surface eroded by rusting an cleaning.


As I mentioned before, many of such pommels ended their career, at least here in Italy, as scale weights, so surviving the swords they had belonged too.
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