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Allen Foster





Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Rapier used in Joachim Meyer's 1570 Fechtbuch         Reply with quote

I've only been involved with swords since the beginning of the year so please forgive my ignorance. My question relates to the rapier used in Joachim Meyer's 1570 fechtbuch. I've heard it described as a cut and thrust sword so is it really a rapier? Also is there a Meyer Rapier or close approximte available on the market today? If so, where?

Thanks in advance,

Allen
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Craig Shira




Location: California
Joined: 02 Feb 2007

Posts: 38

PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Rapier Fun         Reply with quote

.

I had a similar question, which received quite a few informative responses. If you search the archive for "Meyer rapier," and tell it to search for that phrase, you will easily find a lot of information on the topic. Since you are interested in purchasing a weapon, I will let you know what I was told when I asked a rapier instructor from Germany who specialized in Meyer's book. He recommended the company Arms & Armor. From their website, he liked the looks of the Milanese, the Gustav Vasa, and the 2-Ring rapier. For partner work he suggested the nail practice blade. You can find reviews of these swords in the reviews section on myArmoury. Another fine smith that he recommended was Darkwood Armoury.

Based on this, I purchased the Gustav Vasa rapier from Arms & Armor. It took a while to receive, but good things are worth the wait.

Since Meyer's book is an early work, the sword used in Meyer's book is an early rapier. As such, the hilt is very simple and retains much of the cutting presense for techniques that are frequently used in longsword fencing. Some people might call this early-period rapier a "side-sword," but that is a non-historical term and denies the fact that it is, in fact, a rapier. It may have a shorter blade than later period rapiers, it may have more mass, more presence, and more cutting ability than later period rapiers, but it is still very much a rapier.

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Sean Flynt
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PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2008 1:19 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The term "rapier" describes different weapons depending on the period and culture. IIRC the weapons you mention are relatively slender and tapered double-edge blades with very simple hilts--maybe just a side ring. Sutor's work is based on Meyer, and he shows weapons like those in Meyer as well as broad, parallel-edged swords with more complex hilts. As far as I can tell, he includes both under the general term "rappier". The image below is from Sutor and shows the latter type.

We can't see details of either type, but assuming both are broad and thin enough to have a functional edge both can be considered cut and thrust weapons. When I think of a perfect c&t sword I think of the A&A Town Guard sword (somebody please loan me one for review here! Big Grin ). Complex hilt and d.e. blade with a broad forte sharply tapering to an acute tip. A&A's Serinissima rapier is probably as close as you can get to the Meyer sword off-the-shelf.



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-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Allen Foster





Joined: 17 Feb 2008
Reading list: 4 books

Posts: 247

PostPosted: Mon 08 Sep, 2008 1:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thank you both,

This information is very informative and saves me a lot of time. I will research each of these blades.

Allen
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Kjell Magnusson




Location: Sweden
Joined: 10 Jun 2004

Posts: 123

PostPosted: Tue 09 Sep, 2008 9:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Here's a pretty good thread on the subject of what a rapier is: http://www.myArmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=8532
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