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M Tice




Location: California
Joined: 10 Sep 2007

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject: GDFB-Milanese Harness???         Reply with quote

Greetings all,

I was wondering if anyone has heard or can tell me there impression of GDFB’s Milanese armor based on the Avant Harness? Any personal first hand information from those who have purchased the harness would be most appreciated, but opinions and comments are most welcome as well.

Thanks.

Matthew

http://www.casiberia.com/product_details.asp?id=AB0063
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Zac Evans




Location: London
Joined: 26 Dec 2006

Posts: 151

PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2008 4:58 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would say avoid it like the plague considering they put it together wrongly for the promotional photos.

No actual experience with them, but would suggest that you save your pennies and get a harness made for you by someone that really knows there stuff.
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Nathan Keysor




Location: WV
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Reading list: 9 books

Posts: 255

PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2008 8:10 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

All this GDFB stuff is made by Syndicate Armoury in India. I used to buy direct from them before they started the GDFB line. Their stuff is solidly made but sometimes ahistoric and a bit clunky. I notice their prices are astronomically higher with the name change and better marketing.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner.
Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
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Torsten F.H. Wilke




Location: Irvine Spectrum, CA
Joined: 01 Jul 2006

Posts: 250

PostPosted: Thu 28 Aug, 2008 12:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I would wait and see if it goes on sale! Big Grin

It seems like a fun impression of the "Avante" harness, but not very authentically styled if you start splitting hairs. I have seen much worse. Fun is most likely all you will get out of such a purchase. Expensive fun at that, too. At least it comes with some maille accesories.

On the other hand, a well made harness would probably start in the neighborhood of 7-8 thousand dolleros. Really good ones are in the 15-25 thousand dollar range. That keeps them just out of reach of the regular folk. No wonder knights were knights in the good 'ol days, lol.

Good luck with whatever you decide upon...
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Thu 28 Aug, 2008 4:29 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the legs arent bad. they need some work. the upper thigh is thin at the knee area so beware if u have big thighs. the fan's need work to be more ahistorical as do the V rolls. the greaves need some reshaping to fit a proper calf. no one's ankle is that wide ehhehe.
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M Tice




Location: California
Joined: 10 Sep 2007

Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu 28 Aug, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Different GDFB Picture         Reply with quote

Hello,

I found a new picture from the GDFB site where the armor is displayed more correctly.

Thanks,

Mattew

http://www.gdfbglobal.com/glpcat/clnt_cat_ep....d=10289022
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Zac Evans




Location: London
Joined: 26 Dec 2006

Posts: 151

PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Its still incorrect. The pauldrons are all wrong, and put on upside down. The helm is also not actually the correct one for the period. It comes from a different armour, but was probably chosen as its the easiest type to make.

I'd still say leave it and get a nicer one.
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2008 11:09 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

the helm is right for the period. its italian 15thc and so is the rest of the kit. BUT the harness it is based on is the advent harness, which was sold to a museum with everything but the correct helmet (the armet). the museum it was sold to used a barbuta in its place. at least thats what i've heard.

it's shown with a barbuta i believe still today and like that in many armouring books.

the pauldrons and arm harness are missing the wrapper plates. thats 1 reason it looks "off"
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Zac Evans




Location: London
Joined: 26 Dec 2006

Posts: 151

PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2008 11:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The helm is 50 years off the rest of the harness. It was put with the avant harness when the original helm was sold at a seperate auction to a private collector.

Yes, the re-inforcements will make it look better, but the pauldrons are still wrong IMO.

http://www.myArmoury.com/feature_gothic_armour.html

That is apparently the armour its based on (the first one).
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Fri 29 Aug, 2008 11:39 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I got to see most of this harness last weekend. Its OK generally. The gauntlets were somewhat bulky and clunky to me and some of the bits were not as good as the others. If you are going to fight you may need serious work on these gauntlets or new ones. The cuirass was well made and the arms and legs were decent, the limbs perhaps needing finishing work once you get them to size them better. The pauldrons if placed correctly are actually one bit I thought was good. The helmet is good but as Zak mentioned it is not the one that should go with the harness. Most view the barbute as a helmet for less complete harness or such. I'd look at an armet which likely was what went with it. It depends how much work you would like to do once you get the harness as it likely will not fit you upon arrival and if you can cut and form the metal.

Also from what I gather some harnesses of the same type are much better than others. I heard this from a few people and it is a general statement about GDFB so something to keep in mind. They were not at the event last week I was at; actually I have not seen them at any reenactment things this year..... but I see their stuff around quite a bit. Generally their helmets are ok but basically one size fits all, tends to error on the side of bigger.

As Zac said it might be work looking around and seeing what the same or a bit more money would buy if you do not want to make mods once you get it.

I emailed both places where the pauldrons were upside down a long time ago but no response of change yet... Maybe they think I am wrong?


RPM
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Wolfgang R.





Joined: 08 Jul 2009

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Wed 08 Jul, 2009 10:16 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Nathan Keysor wrote:
All this GDFB stuff is made by Syndicate Armoury in India. I used to buy direct from them before they started the GDFB line. Their stuff is solidly made but sometimes ahistoric and a bit clunky. I notice their prices are astronomically higher with the name change and better marketing.


how do they do in longsword freeplay? I've been thinking of buying one of these for a long time now:

http://www.swords-and-more.com/shop1/product_...ts_id/6218

http://www.swords-and-more.com/shop1/product_...ts_id/6231

cheers, w.
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul, 2009 12:15 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Super-low prices on those helmets make me naturally warry - I know the work expenses in India is much lower than in Europe or US, but a close helm for 100 Euro???
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Wolfgang R.





Joined: 08 Jul 2009

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul, 2009 12:28 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Artis Aboltins wrote:
Super-low prices on those helmets make me naturally warry - I know the work expenses in India is much lower than in Europe or US, but a close helm for 100 Euro???


sure, we should be suspicious... I'm no fried of fencing masks, so I upgrade normal helmets with HDPE lining and a grill. I just want to know if one of these will take some serious beating and last for a while...
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Artis Aboltins




PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul, 2009 1:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I doubt if 16 gauge is enough for a helm to be able to take serious beating and go on - seems too light to me. We use mainly 2 mm (12 gauge, unless I am mistaken) steel helmets for sword and shield training, and even those require repairs after some time in active use. Of course if it would be a well crafted helm made from spring-steel, it might be a keeper, but then it would not cost under 100 euro...
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Hal Siegel
Industry Professional



Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 30 Aug 2003

Posts: 113

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul, 2009 6:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wolfgang R. wrote:

sure, we should be suspicious... I'm no fried of fencing masks, so I upgrade normal helmets with HDPE lining and a grill. I just want to know if one of these will take some serious beating and last for a while...


Wolfgang - the versions available in the US are 14 ga.





Safety-wise, they need a little work - for instance, there are no latches or straps for the faceplate and I wouldn't wear one without a good gorget; and I wouldn't go full force with Starfire or AFS stage blades on one, but for controlled training/bouting with a realistically weighted blunt I'd say they're fine.



There are certainly better helmets available, but for low-end they're pretty good.

Hal Siegel - TherionArms
http://www.therionarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/TherionArms
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Wolfgang R.





Joined: 08 Jul 2009

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul, 2009 8:40 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

thx for the pictures hal. this seems to be a different helm alltogether but i guess the finish would be the same (or more likely worse), also i would have to planish down those extensions of the faceplate that lead to the hinges since a hit there would transfere almost all force to your neck without deflecting any, which would be particularly unpleasent in case of a full blown vom tag. additionally the force would be unilateral which is even more dangerous.

btw I have seen some of these 1.3 mm helms:

http://www.kovexars.cz/routines/new_window_pi...vodoznak=1

and they seem to be able to take anything that wouldn't break your neck anyway for at least 1.5 years of regular sparring (twice a week). but again, these are obviously hardened and I don't suppose the SAY ones are?

Cheers, W.
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Hal Siegel
Industry Professional



Location: Austin, Texas
Joined: 30 Aug 2003

Posts: 113

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul, 2009 12:42 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Wolfgang R. wrote:

btw I have seen some of these 1.3 mm helms:

http://www.kovexars.cz/routines/new_window_pi...vodoznak=1

and they seem to be able to take anything that wouldn't break your neck anyway for at least 1.5 years of regular sparring (twice a week). but again, these are obviously hardened and I don't suppose the SAY ones are?


Nope. Sad

Thanks for the link to the Kovex site, I can't remember seeing them before.

If you're in Europe and have (relatively) easy access to Czech, Polish and Ukrainian reenactment supply companies, I'd say "buy local!" Happy

Hal Siegel - TherionArms
http://www.therionarms.com
http://www.facebook.com/TherionArms
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Wolfgang R.





Joined: 08 Jul 2009

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu 09 Jul, 2009 1:36 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

you are welcome, here another armourer: http://www.tomala.lublin.pl/index.php?strona=wstep&lng=eng

you are right. i could buy from covex in the first place but I prefer to put every dime I can spare (=free time) in my actual suit: I am somewhat of an armourer myself, but in the time I would need to make a decent helmet I could make 3 grand in my actual job, not to mention expenses (torch etc.).

however, in the description it says, SAY produces them in 1.6 mm too so I wrote an email to the swords-and-more guys if they could order those, what they would cost and if the manufacturer says they are "schaukampftauglich". If I should get one I will definately post pic and a review here.


Cheers, W.
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Wolfgang R.





Joined: 08 Jul 2009

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun 12 Jul, 2009 9:37 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

http://www.mittelaltershop24.de/index.html?ru...elme_3.htm

looks like I found the 1.6 mm version at an even better price. should be here sometime next week. for that prize I may even consider hardening, and while I'm alredy at it burnishing, it myself if it comes to it.

Cheers, W.
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Wolfgang R.





Joined: 08 Jul 2009

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue 14 Jul, 2009 10:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

So, the swords-and-more guys have written me back and they say that the helms actually are in 1.6mm thickness already. SAY however would nor recommend them for battle, which they explicitly do for their GDFB items.

crap, looks like I'm gonna have a hell of a lot of work to do on them after all... like maybe welding a band to the lower rim of the faceplate, weld washers to the pivot points, perforated plate/grill for eyes....


Cheers, W.
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