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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: Claymore Armoury: New Landesknecht and Lowland Commissions         Reply with quote

I commissioned two swords from Thomas Yeudall of the Claymore Armoury in Scotland:

The Landesknecht commission is going to be approximately 72 inches in total length and use the serrated blade. (I was tempted by the more gentle serrations of the flambard blade originally). This will be a new design, something that has not been done before. This Landesknecht sword is going to be an example of the more flamboyant Landescknect swords. The goal of this Landesknecht sword is to create a very detailed, very three dimensional furniture with lots of engraving and fine detail... all while preserving historical accuracy and a well balanced sword of course. One of the aspects of the Landesknecht swords I like is that some were historically very, very detailed.

I would appreciate it if people could point out some of their favorite details of various Landesknect swords that might contribute to the design of this sword. whether it be detail of the grip, a very detailed pommel, or other aspects of the furniture, engravings, something embedded, etc... I would appreciate pointing out drawings or pictures of Zweihander Landescknect swords that are of interest. I am looking to incorporate as much fine detail and three dimensionality as possible.

Also, please post pictures of your Claymore Armoury Swords from Thomas Yeudall.

Some people had questions about the use of ferrules on swords and why some swords use them and others do not. I'd like to hear some opinions on that as well.

The second sword I am commissioning from Claymore Armoury is:

No.1 1296AD SIR WILLIAM WALLACE SWORD 65"x51" BLADE

http://www.claymore-armoury.co.uk/scottish_swords.html

I would also like to add a lot of pictures I received from the Claymore armoury which show the excellent craftmanship. The Scottish Halberds are amazing. So are all of his polearms and swords.


Last edited by Chris Artman on Sun 24 Aug, 2008 12:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

When you mention you're going to have your sword have "serrations", what do you mean? Will it be of the "scalloped" variety or the so-called "flambard" variety or actually serrated?

I tend to like the scalloped blades better, myself. Though, I prefer prefer Italian two-handers over the Germanic ones, overall.



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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I also find things like this interesting because they're not often replicated. The two-handers with non-wavy blades often have intricate fullering and complex ricasso areas like this example.

A GERMAN TWO-HAND SWORD, LAST QUARTER OF THE 16TH CENTURY with tapering blade of flattened hexagonal section, cut with three slender fullers over the lower portion, incorporating a pair of stout lugs at the base and stamped with a series of marks on each side over the ricasso, steel hilt comprising slightly down-turned flat cross-piece with tightly scrolling terminals, inner-and outer ring-guard each swelling towards the centre and filled with a fleur-de-lys, four-part pear-shaped pommel stamped on the front and the back with a mark, and leather-covered wooden grip, perhaps the original (the leather with small losses) 124cm; 48P in blade Two further two-hand swords by Wolfgang Stantler, with the same series of marks and dated 1598 and 1595 respectively are preserved in the State Museum Vienna and the Passau Museum. See H. Stocklein



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German 16th Century Two-handed Sword
Copyright Thomas Del Mar Ltd


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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2008 2:48 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
I tend to like the scalloped blades better, myself. Though, I prefer prefer Italian two-handers over the Germanic ones, overall.


I was choosing between various blades, but yes, the scalloped blade as you posted above works better for the design vs the 'wavy' design... I like both though...



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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2008 2:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

By the way, do you have some examples of the Italian two handers you are referring to?
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2008 6:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I added additional photos to the post above of the same sword with the complex-fullering in the ricasso.
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Stu C




Location: Western Australia
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2008 7:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Claymore Armoury: New Landesknecht and Lowland Commissio         Reply with quote

Chris Artman wrote:

Also, please post pictures of your Claymore Armoury Swords from Thomas Yeudall.


Chris,
One of my friends here in Oz who has coveted my collection of Claymore Armoury swords since I started collecting them has just paid the balance on his 75" lowlander, so it should be here within the next few weeks (depending on when Thomas gets it crated up and shipped out, I guess). I'll post pics some pics when it turns up. A couple of pictures of the four I own have already been posted previously, so I won't bore anyone with them by re-posting.
Cheers,
Stu
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2008 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Claymore Armoury: New Landesknecht and Lowland Commissio         Reply with quote

Stu C wrote:
One of my friends here in Oz who has coveted my collection of Claymore Armoury swords since I started collecting them has just paid the balance on his 75" lowlander, so it should be here within the next few weeks (depending on when Thomas gets it crated up and shipped out, I guess). I'll post pics some pics when it turns up. A couple of pictures of the four I own have already been posted previously, so I won't bore anyone with them by re-posting.


Hi Stu-

You're the first person I've come across on the 'net that has had access to items from Claymore Armoury. I'm very excited to know your reports and see photos! I'll look for the links to your previous posts as I don't remember seeing them. Thanks for the head's up.

Cheers

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Stu C




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2008 7:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Claymore Armoury: New Landesknecht and Lowland Commissio         Reply with quote

Nathan Robinson wrote:
Stu C wrote:
One of my friends here in Oz who has coveted my collection of Claymore Armoury swords since I started collecting them has just paid the balance on his 75" lowlander, so it should be here within the next few weeks (depending on when Thomas gets it crated up and shipped out, I guess). I'll post pics some pics when it turns up. A couple of pictures of the four I own have already been posted previously, so I won't bore anyone with them by re-posting.


Hi Stu-

You're the first person I've come across on the 'net that has had access to items from Claymore Armoury. I'm very excited to know your reports and see photos! I'll look for the links to your previous posts as I don't remember seeing them. Thanks for the head's up.

Cheers



Hi Nathan,
Yep, there don't seem to be many people out there in internet-land that have them, which has always struck me as a bit odd. I personally think they are top notch, although there is some (perfectly valid) contention about the accuracy of his using ferrules (particularly on the Wallace, which has them, although the 'original' doesn't). If anyone wants better pictures, I'll create an ImageShack account and post some up when I get some spare time.
Cheers
Stu
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Claymore Armoury: New Landesknecht and Lowland Commissio         Reply with quote

Stu C wrote:
Hi Nathan,
Yep, there don't seem to be many people out there in internet-land that have them, which has always struck me as a bit odd. I personally think they are top notch, although there is some (perfectly valid) contention about the accuracy of his using ferrules (particularly on the Wallace, which has them, although the 'original' doesn't). If anyone wants better pictures, I'll create an ImageShack account and post some up when I get some spare time.
Cheers
Stu

Maybe you can post in the original topic (or a new one?) some thoughts about the handling characteristics of the swords you already own. I'd also love to see additional photos. It's off-topic here, though, of course.

Yeah, the ferrules and the grip wraps bug me a lot, personally. I'd prefer a more historical solution and would absolutely want the swords created as sharps from the start. Having said that I have to point out that my own preferences for this sort of thing tend to lean towards the details found on the historical inspirations and really aren't a critique of the obvious fine craftsmanship shown in his work.

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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2008 9:26 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stu,

Please repost them here. It would be greatly appreciated. We can also address the use of ferrules here also.

Nathan, would you mind posting a couple examples of Italian two handers? I would like to see what you are talking about...
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Stu C




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PostPosted: Sun 24 Aug, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Artman wrote:
Stu,

Please repost them here. It would be greatly appreciated. We can also address the use of ferrules here also.

Nathan, would you mind posting a couple examples of Italian two handers? I would like to see what you are talking about...



Chris,
Since you have ordered the Wallace, I figure that is probably the one you are most interested in, so some (low res) pictures which I did to compare the original with the repro are attached (will sort out high res images, plus pictures of the other swords when I have somewhere to put them, and will post under it's own topic).
Cheers
Stu

PS. Credit to the person that took the photos in Stirling Castle. I got them off myArmoury some time back.
PPS. I totally screwed things up the first time I posted these pictures. Did a double post and it got worse from there....! I think it's all sorted now...



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Danny Grigg





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PostPosted: Mon 25 Aug, 2008 2:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stu great pics of your replica, if you have a pic of the entire sword can you please post...

Does anyone have any further pics of the GALLOWGLASS BATTLE AXE at the following link?

http://www.claymore-armoury.co.uk/scottish_swords.html

Thanks

Danny
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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Aug, 2008 2:10 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Artman wrote:
Nathan, would you mind posting a couple examples of Italian two handers? I would like to see what you are talking about...

I don't know if I have any digital versions.

These things are well published. It would take me quite some time before I'd have time to get to the books, look them up, scan them, and post them Sad

Del Tin makes a modern-made Venetian two-handed sword, FWIW, and it's quite nice.

I spent a few minutes doing a bit of research and found:

Attached is one from the Wallace Collection found at This Link.

Description and photo copyright The Wallace Collection.

Two-handed sword
Milan, Italy
c. 1500 - c. 1510
Iron, steel, leather, wood and copper, blackened, filed, chiselled, etched and gilded
Length: 112.8 cm, blade
Length: 37.6 cm, grip
Length: 29.8 cm, quillons
Length: 17 cm, ricasso
Width: 4.6 cm
Weight: 2.46 kg
Maker's mark In copper
A471
European Armoury I



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A471.jpg
A471, Two-Handed Sword
Copyright The Wallace Collection


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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Aug, 2008 2:13 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You may want to read this:

The Weighty Issue of Two-Handed Greatswords, by J. Clements

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Stu C




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Aug, 2008 2:18 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Danny Grigg wrote:
Stu great pics of your replica, if you have a pic of the entire sword can you please post...


As requested. The only one I have at the moment that shows the entire length of the thing is one out on my lawn, which unfortunately isn't the best pic (I've rotated it and cropped out most of the grass to compress it down). It's a bit tricky to photograph because of the length...!



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Nathan Robinson
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PostPosted: Mon 25 Aug, 2008 5:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is A.472 from The Wallace Collection.

Hilt likely Italian, blade likely German.

Description and photo copyright The Wallace Collection.

Two-handed sword
Italy and Germany
c. 1530
Iron or steel, leather, gold and steel, etched, chiselled and gilded
Length: 122 cm, blade
Length: 42.2 cm, grip
Length: 42.5 cm, quillons
Length: 12 cm, ricasso
Width: 4.5 cm
Weight: 3.01 kg
Incised mark: Running wolf
A472
European Armoury I



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A472 Two-handed sword
Copyright The Wallace Collection


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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Aug, 2008 9:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Does anyone have any thoughts on unsharpened blades? I only own swords that are designed to be sharp, aka truely like the original.... Not designing the blade to be sharp from the beginning really kills my enthusiasm level. Does this not affect the overall geometry of the blade as well? The geometry of the blade designed to be sharp is like the original, whereas trying to put an edge on a sword later just adds an acute angle... The goal of reproduction should be to match the blade geometry of the sharp original.

I really do like The Italian two hander... very very nice!


Last edited by Chris Artman on Mon 25 Aug, 2008 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chris Artman




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Aug, 2008 10:06 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Does anyone have any further pics of the GALLOWGLASS BATTLE AXE at the following link


Thomas sent me some various pictures with his brochure, I'll check when I get home. I will post his pictures of the Scottish halberd which are very, very nice...

No.6 18th CENTURY SCOTTISH HALBERD

I'll post a picture of this.
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Stu C




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PostPosted: Mon 25 Aug, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chris Artman wrote:
Does anyone have any thoughts on unsharpened blades? I only own swords that are designed to be sharp, aka truely like the original.... Not designing the blade to be sharp from the beginning really kills my enthusiasm level. Does this not affect the overall geometry of the blade as well? The geometry of the blade designed to be sharp is like the original, whereas trying to put an edge on a sword later just adds an acute angle... The goal of reproduction should be to match the blade geometry of the sharp original.

I really do like The Italian two hander... very very nice!


Chris,

In the case of the swords you have ordered, I don't think it would make much difference to the overall geometry. With the exception of the practice blunt that I have, the other non-sharp blades all have fairly fine edges and do not look blunt unless you are specifically looking. If the sharpening was done properly (and not just via one of those little sharpening tools), then I don't think you would get a secondary bevel. I wouldn't let anyone other than a good sword-smith do the sharpening, as trashing a $3500+ Landsnecht sword would probably be rather upsetting!

That said, I personally wouldn't bother sharpening up such a large sword as they really aren't much practical use for anything other than looking at and periodically wiping with oil (if that could be called a practical use).

I suppose the bottom line is that if you think it is going to really bother you at this stage in the game, rather then spend a lot of money and perhaps be disappointed with the end result, maybe get a custom sharp from someone else (just playing devils advocate)?

Stu
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