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Oliver Wiegand




Location: Germany
Joined: 07 Aug 2007

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Fri 22 Aug, 2008 2:39 pm    Post subject: Link to weights and measures of historical swords         Reply with quote

Hi,

I don't know if this is already posted here in the forum. But I think this could be of interest to some of you.

Just discovered on the web page of the German group "Zornhau" (www.zornhau.de),
that they did an excursion to a German dealer for historical arms.
The dealer gave them an opportunity to check the measurements and weights
of a lot of historical swords.
There are some pictures and pdf spec sheets of the swords
available. The articles and spec sheets are only in German...

There are two links on the start page of www.zornhau.de on the right site below where you can find the pictures and spec sheets.
(Please note that they advise that the pictures and pdf-sheets are only for private use.)

First link name :"Dinkelsbühl: first steel:"
http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/index.htm

Somehow I can not copy the second link:
"Dinkelsbühl: Revisited" but it is red marked next to the first one...
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Allen W





Joined: 02 Mar 2004

Posts: 285

PostPosted: Fri 22 Aug, 2008 6:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for posting this. That is a great link. I find it interesting that all of the messers balance around six inches which seems typical for katana in my experience.
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Bruno Giordan





Joined: 28 Sep 2005

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 918

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 7:14 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The second visit page worked well fro me. I'm using mozilla firefox, btw

http://www.zornhau.de/source/schwertexkursion/dinkelsbuehl2.htm
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Lancelot Chan
Industry Professional



Location: Hong Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 1,218

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 9:59 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Splendid photos and information. Unfortunately I can't read German as my younger brother could. :| But the photos are still very interesting and I can make some guesses from the numbers. Happy Thanks for sharing.
Ancient Combat Association —http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons — http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers — http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
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Kirk Lee Spencer




Location: Texas
Joined: 24 Oct 2003

Spotlight topics: 6
Posts: 820

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 10:56 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Lancelot Chan wrote:
Splendid photos and information. Unfortunately I can't read German as my younger brother could. :| ...



Hey Lancelot....

Try this link...


http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%...&tl=en


ks

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Lancelot Chan
Industry Professional



Location: Hong Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 1,218

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks a lot, Kirk! Is there anyway to get the pdf and datasheet translated as well? Big Grin

Kirk Lee Spencer wrote:
Lancelot Chan wrote:
Splendid photos and information. Unfortunately I can't read German as my younger brother could. :| ...



Hey Lancelot....

Try this link...


http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%...&tl=en


ks

Ancient Combat Association —http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons — http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers — http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
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Roger Hooper




Location: Northern California
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Likes: 1 page

Spotlight topics: 4
Posts: 3,932

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 11:17 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

You might have to resort to an online German to English dictionary for those pdf measurements.

For instance - Gewicht = Weight
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Lancelot Chan
Industry Professional



Location: Hong Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 1,218

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks a lot. I figured some words out anyway... balance, thickness... so on... Big Grin

Roger Hooper wrote:
You might have to resort to an online German to English dictionary for those pdf measurements.

For instance - Gewicht = Weight

Ancient Combat Association —http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons — http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers — http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
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Oliver Wiegand




Location: Germany
Joined: 07 Aug 2007

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 12:25 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi,

to make it easier for you, I did a literal translation from German into English of the first pdf
"ZEF1 Grosses Zweihandschwert bzw früher Bidenhänder um 1530" with all terms:

Maßblatt Blankwaffen/Spec Sheet Edged weapons:

Alle Maße in Millimeter und Gramm angegeben / All measures indicated in millimeter and gramm:

Gesamtabmaße/ Overall dimensions:
Länge/Length: 1590mm
Breite/Width: 44,7mm
Gewicht/Weight: 2740gr

Klingenmaße/ Blade dimensions:
Klingengeometrie: rhombisch/Geometry of the blade: rhombic
Klingenlänge/ Blade length: 1200mm

Klingenbreite/Blade width:
Beim Kreuz / At the cross guard: 44,7mm
Bei/At 1/3: 41,6
Bei/At 2/3: 41,2
20mm vom Ort / 20mm from the point: 3,7mm

Schwerpunkt/Point of balance: 192mm
Hohlkehlenanzahl/Number of fullers: 3
Hohlkehle Länge/Lenght of fuller: 210mm, 210mm, 400mm
Hohlkehle Breite/Width of fuller: 13mm (all 3)
Hohlkehle Tiefe/ Depth of fuller: 2mm
Ricassolänge / Lenght of Ricasso: 215mm

Kreuz / Cross
Kreuzform/ Form of cross: S-curved
Kreuzlänge/Lenght of cross: 255mm
Kreuzdicke/Crosssize: 14,8mm
Kreuzhöhe/Cross height: 12mm

Parierringe/Counter-Guards or Loop-Guards ?
Ringgeometrie/ Geometry of ring
Ringhöhe/ Height of ring
Ringdicke/Ring size
Ringbereich/ Ring area ?

Griff/Grip
Griffgeometrie/ Geometry of the grip: oval
Länge/Lenght: 31,4mm
Breite/Width: 30,5mm
Dicke/Size: oben/on top: 22,5mm, Mitte/middle:29mm unten/below: 20mm
Sonstige Maße / Other dimensions: Zwinge 26mm (don't know how to translate "zwinge" is it "collar" ?..)

Knauf/Pommel
Knaufform/ Form of pommel:
Birnenknauf, tordierte Einschnitte, "Knoblauch", vernietet / Pear-Pommel, twisted cuts, "garlic", riveted
Länge/Lenght: 60,8mm
Dicke/Size: 61mm
Durchmesser/Diameter: 61mm


Beschädigungen/Damages
Some small notches on the blade, removed by grinding, flash rust, few notches in the leather.

Sonstiges/Others:

Small (Griffzwingen) Grip-collars (?) in front of the cross guard and pommel,
grip-leather glued and not stiched, almost round point.

Sorry for typos and some wrong grammar but my english really needs a refreshment, so please correct me if there is something incorrect.
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Kirk Lee Spencer




Location: Texas
Joined: 24 Oct 2003

Spotlight topics: 6
Posts: 820

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hey Oliver...

Excellent stuff!

Thanks for showing it to us Big Grin


ks

Two swords
Lit in Eden’s flame
One of iron and one of ink
To place within a bloody hand
One of God or one of man
Our souls to one of
Two eternities
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Lancelot Chan
Industry Professional



Location: Hong Kong
Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Likes: 2 pages

Posts: 1,218

PostPosted: Sat 23 Aug, 2008 9:52 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks a lot. You guys are so nice. Big Grin
Ancient Combat Association —http://www.acahk.org
Realistic Sparring Weapons — http://www.rsw.com.hk
Nightstalkers — http://www.nightstalkers.com.hk
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Jan Svejkovsky




Location: San Diego
Joined: 04 Oct 2007

Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue 26 Aug, 2008 9:22 pm    Post subject: German Arms Dealer         Reply with quote

I am a relatively new but well-informed medieval sword collector. The swords pictured in the arms dealer's collections in this thread are of amazing quality - if truly genuine. Some appear to even have original grips. To our German (and other) members: have any of you visited this shop and actually seen these swords? If so, what are the prices? Where did this dealer obtain these swords (none appeared at major auctions in the past 10 years....) Any contact and other info on this dealership would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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Oliver Wiegand




Location: Germany
Joined: 07 Aug 2007

Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2008 1:32 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jan,

here is the web-link to the German dealer: http://www.fricker-historische-waffen.de/html/home__engl_.html

The guys from "Zornhau" wrote in their article that the tested swords are truly origin, grips are original and prices for the reviewed swords start at 11.000,- Euro.

At the end of the second article there is a short quote from Mr. Fricker : "Had I known this before - I still have some original fencing books somewhere in my bookshelf..."

The author of this article also wrote in his last sentence that this will be a topic for the next excursion...

Oliver
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Jan Svejkovsky




Location: San Diego
Joined: 04 Oct 2007

Posts: 25

PostPosted: Wed 27 Aug, 2008 7:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Oliver - vielen dank about the dealer info!

Next time I'm in Europe I'll make sure to visit this unique shop (although his prices are obviously top end).
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