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Ken Berry




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Joined: 17 May 2008

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Fri 25 Jul, 2008 9:54 pm    Post subject: 15th Century German Kit         Reply with quote

Greetings to all,

I am pretty new here, and new to the study of swords and swordsmanship. I have recently begun studying German longsword and am considering putting together a kit for historical interpretation/living history purposes. My training partner and I have discussed the possibility of portraying 15th century German mercenary/professional soldiers. I know that "Germany" at this time is a collection of smaller principalities/duchies more or less under the control of the Holy Roman Empire, and understand that german is a bit of a generalized term.

What I would like to ask the forum is for suggestions on clothing/armour, etc appropriate to this type of persona. We were figuring to portray footsoldiers rather than mounted men-at-arms so as to avoid the whole equestrian issue (neither of us own or have access to horses).

I own a few pieces left over from my days with the SCA, Bascinet, plate armor legs, aketon. I know the bascinet is probably too early but was unsure if it could be thought of as an outdated but still serviceable piece used simply because it is accessible.

So far I am weaponless but have just put in an order with Albion for a "talhoffer" longsword.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

Ken
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Randall Moffett




Location: Northern Utah
Joined: 07 Jun 2006
Reading list: 5 books

Posts: 2,098

PostPosted: Fri 25 Jul, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Do you have pictures of any of it? Bascinets were the most common type of helmet at least in the first few decades of the 15th in europe.

Hard to say without more info though.

RPM
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Mick Czerep




Location: Poland
Joined: 30 May 2007

Posts: 59

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jul, 2008 2:43 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Fo the Talhoffer sword I'd go for a sallet, helmetwise, and vver towars Gothic style, armourwise in general. Take a look at your T illustrations.
Sordes ocurrit
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Aaron Schnatterly




Location: New Glarus, WI
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Reading list: 67 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,244

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jul, 2008 12:44 pm    Post subject: Re: 15th Century German Kit         Reply with quote

Ken Berry wrote:
I am pretty new here, and new to the study of swords and swordsmanship. I have recently begun studying German longsword and am considering putting together a kit for historical interpretation/living history purposes. My training partner and I have discussed the possibility of portraying 15th century German mercenary/professional soldiers. I know that "Germany" at this time is a collection of smaller principalities/duchies more or less under the control of the Holy Roman Empire, and understand that german is a bit of a generalized term.

Yup. Lots of power struggles, too...

Ken Berry wrote:
What I would like to ask the forum is for suggestions on clothing/armour, etc appropriate to this type of persona. We were figuring to portray footsoldiers rather than mounted men-at-arms so as to avoid the whole equestrian issue (neither of us own or have access to horses).

There are some extremely well-organized and researched LH groups literally IN those regions. Here are two:
http://www.aufgebot1474.de/
http://www.anno1476.de/

There are a lot of others, too... and some may be found by following the links on those pages.

If you can't read German, use babelfish to translate the webpages for you. It's not perfect, but way better than hen-pecking your way through with a dictionary...

Also, directly from the region and circa 1480 is an outstanding book, which can actually be found fairly easily via Amazon's web page or other used book site. It can be had for a reasonable cost... my copy is pristine, and cost me around $22 shipped!
The title is: "Venus and Mars: The World of the Medieval Housebook"

Don't go to quite the extreme of the Master here - the Knight of the Jug who appears throughout. That would be severely above your station, and is stupid-expensive to manage a decent portrayal of. (I'm working on that now... so far, the want list is well over $50k). Instead, look at some of the background folks. The military pages are awesome, but the day-to-day life pages are possibly even more interesting.

Also, if you can get your hands on a copy of Embleton and Howe's book "The Medieval Soldier", there are a good number of decent photos that will give you an idea of a wide range of kits, male and female, military and civillian, all "pay grades".

Look at Talhoffer's book. Look at Paulus Kal... at Joachim Meyer... Mair... All of those have great illustrations...



Where are you, Ken? There are other groups here in the US who are doing similar (including one I hope to get kicked off here within the next year).
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Ken Berry




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Joined: 17 May 2008

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jul, 2008 7:12 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks to all for the responses.

Unfortunately I do not have any photos of my bascinet to publish but thanks for the info about it being common in the first part of the 15th century. I guess I can check some contemporary images against my helm and see how it compares. A sallet would probably be best but I am going on a budget so until I can get something more appropriate I will have to use what I have and can cobble together. That talhoffer from albion will be eating up much of my resources for a while.
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Ken Berry




Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Joined: 17 May 2008

Posts: 31

PostPosted: Sat 26 Jul, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Aaron,

I am in Cincinnati, Ohio. Where are you? If there are others close interested in the same type of persona it would be nice to meet, otherwise still good to correspond.

thanks for all the resouces in your response, I will probably be up way too late looking at them on the web.


Ken
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Aaron Schnatterly




Location: New Glarus, WI
Joined: 16 Feb 2005
Reading list: 67 books

Spotlight topics: 1
Posts: 1,244

PostPosted: Sun 27 Jul, 2008 9:03 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm up in New Glarus, WI. I'll shoot you a PM with some more info...

The resources - no trouble. They're bookmarked... and the tip of the iceburg.

Again, I'll strongly recommend checking out the Venus and Mars book - even with shipping, a decent copy can be had for a small sum. The plates are awesome, and the text is actually in English. Some of it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

Looking up anything you can find on the Siege of Neuss will help, though again, it's almost surely in German.

If you are mercs late in the 15th C, you'll probably also be able to look to the Burgundian armies, making "The Medieval Soldier" even more attactive to you. Shouldn't be too hard to find through your library (even if it is through ILL), but can be expensive to purchase, relatively speaking.
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
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PostPosted: Mon 28 Jul, 2008 8:25 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

This is the best resource I know of:

http://www.imareal.oeaw.ac.at/realonline/

Choose "Materielle Objekte" from the drop-down menu.

Enter the date range in the "Von" and "Bis" boxes (From and To)

Click "Auswählen

In the search box at the bottom of th new page, enter the German name of a common military object. I suggest "helm".

Click "Zeige Bilder"

This action will call up all the artwork for that period that includes a helmet. That will give you an amazing variety of arms and armour from which to choose, and you won't have to wonder about authenticity. Many of the paintings are accompanied by individual images of details, often of clothing, arms and armour.

Some examples from a search of "Helm," 1470-1500 (both are details of larger works, which is why the first image doesn't have a "helm" in it:



 Attachment: 137.92 KB
detail1.jpg


 Attachment: 138.4 KB
detail3.jpg


-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
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Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

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PostPosted: Mon 28 Jul, 2008 9:44 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Another favorite site:

http://www.olofsgillet.org/

And check out the 15th c. section at Via Armorari:

http://www.viaarmorari.com/

-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Sean Flynt
myArmoury Team


myArmoury Team

Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Likes: 10 pages
Reading list: 13 books

Spotlight topics: 7
Posts: 5,886

PostPosted: Mon 28 Jul, 2008 12:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for the tip about Venus and Mars, Aaron! Just ordered it.
-Sean

"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)
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Chuck Russell




Location: WV
Joined: 17 Aug 2004
Reading list: 46 books

Posts: 936

PostPosted: Mon 28 Jul, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

check your pm's

Happy
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Mick Czerep




Location: Poland
Joined: 30 May 2007

Posts: 59

PostPosted: Mon 28 Jul, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

For more of a Burgundian twist check with
www.companie-of-st-george.ch

Sordes ocurrit
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