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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul, 2008 3:27 pm    Post subject: Man I love Metal         Reply with quote

Greetings,
I thought it time for me to start my own Blog as it will. I cant think of a better place to do that than here. My thanks as usual for the gang at myArmoury who make this all possible.
I am just about finished with the details on this Angus Trim 14th Century Longsword. I have been wanting to challenge myself a bit and had some interesting ideas for a Crusader themed scabbard.
My good friend Allen Foster made this core, and I am really impressed with it. The lines are sleek and it fits the sword very well. We collaborated on the designs and in the end took a sampling of both of our ideas.
Feel free to give feedback, as I sometimes don't know whats crap unless some helpful soul points it out to me.
The details are all hand carved and engraved. Materials are solid copper and nickel.
Thanks to Russ at Tritonworks, I am now working on Jean's Doge and another Doge with Geometric designs that will be quite challenging.
Good day, and thanks in advance for your feedback.
Sam



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Last edited by Sam Haverkamp on Tue 08 Jul, 2008 5:58 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Jared Smith




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PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well that is exquisite. It is hard not to sound like I am using hyperbole, but all of your work tends to be of exceptional caliber.

If you do not mind sharing, how are the throat and locket pieces secured in place? Did you chemically plate the copper? An interference fit would seem like a very tricky thing to pull off.
I have thought of epoxy as being preferred over hammering tacks into such a nice and thin walled core.

Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence!
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jared,
Thanks for the positive comments. I did lightly epoxy these into place. They are basically form fit but I was concerned that over time they would fall off and possibly get lost.
I did electroplate the copper to double marine specs on all the fittings. I then chemically blacken them and then selectively
polish them.
Each piece takes me about a full day to complete. Cost is approx $100 for each piece, so in most cases its very reasonable considering the time it takes and material costs etc..
Im having fun and learning, thats whats important right now...
Sam
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul, 2008 5:55 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Seriously " impressive " and I'm afraid that we will all be running out of adequate descriptive words for your work and based on the drawings you posted for the fittings of my Doge and the pics here I can sort of pre-visualize how " Impressive " they are going to be. ( Impressive twice in one sentence ...... I did say running out of words would be a problem. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud ).
You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Allen Foster




PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Seriously " impressive " and I'm afraid that we will all be running out of adequate descriptive words for your work and based on the drawings you posted for the fittings of my Doge and the pics here I can sort of pre-visualize how " Impressive " they are going to be. ( Impressive twice in one sentence ...... I did say running out of words would be a problem. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud ).


Seriously Gentlemen,

Sam is only going to get better. In six months you won't even be able to get on his waiting list. I've already arrainged to send him my three Albions for scabbards. One is going to be a very special project that I can't say anything about but it's going to be exciting. Wait and see!

Oh yea. I forgot to mention. He is a real gentlemen to work with and has been very patient with me.

Allen
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Allen Foster wrote:
Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Seriously " impressive " and I'm afraid that we will all be running out of adequate descriptive words for your work and based on the drawings you posted for the fittings of my Doge and the pics here I can sort of pre-visualize how " Impressive " they are going to be. ( Impressive twice in one sentence ...... I did say running out of words would be a problem. Wink Razz Laughing Out Loud ).


Seriously Gentlemen,

Sam is only going to get better. In six months you won't even be able to get on his waiting list. I've already arrainged to send him my three Albions for scabbards. One is going to be a very special project that I can't say anything about but it's going to be exciting. Wait and see!

Oh yea. I forgot to mention. He is a real gentlemen to work with and has been very patient with me.

Allen


Always good to find these guys early before they get too well known: Sort of like buying an early Picasso. Wink Big Grin

Later one can't afford it or the waiting list gets to be very long.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Tim Lison




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PostPosted: Tue 08 Jul, 2008 7:56 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

That is breathtaking. Great work. Just great.
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Jul, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject: Stuff         Reply with quote

Jean, Allen and Tim,
Thanks Much for the kind words. I know having a Knight on a Knightly sword was a stretch, and knew it would either look pretty good, or be quite cheesy. Figural designs are fun to do but can bite you quickly if they don't have an authentic look
to them. I figured people would either hate or like the design so Im glad its the latter.
It is my goal to do some things I have not seen before. I know some of will not be to everyones taste, but thats the spice of life.
After I get through the commisions that are quickly racking up, I will be working on some more projects with Allen and also want to do a bronze age Celtic sword with Russ. It will be historically correct in design, so that should make folks happy. Also at some point I will be carving some full size Viking shields for Jonathan W.E. Im still crazy about the Celtic/Viking stuff, that wont soon change.
Thanks again for the kind responses!
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Wed 09 Jul, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Stuff         Reply with quote

Sam Haverkamp wrote:
Jean, Allen and Tim,
Figural designs are fun to do but can bite you quickly if they don't have an authentic look
to them. I figured people would either hate or like the design so Im glad its the latter.


Funny you should mention it but just before reading your post, above partially quoted, and looking at the close-up pic of the knight I was going to comment how " period authentic " the drawing looked to me. Eek! Laughing Out Loud Cool

Now I'm not an expert in period iconography or if this subject matter would normally appear on a scabbard as decoration ?
It does look very much like the period funeral effigies in style.

What does seem " period " to me is the style really feels as if a 13th or 14th century hand had drawn the figure and not like a 21 century hand trying to copy a period style.

Obviously it is a 21 century hand trying to make it look like a 13th/14th century hand had drawn the iconography: The difference is that it successfully done and more than just an attempt.

( Disclaimer: A true art expert might be able to find some fault with the iconography or style but that would only be valid if the objective was living history perfection. For me this also has to be judged as well as " NEW ART " in a period style and works for me ).

Bottom line: I really love the work and can't wait to see how the Doge scabbard fittings will look like. As well, my project does not aim at living history standards and can have some fantasy in the drawing design combined with more historically correct elements.

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Jul, 2008 9:24 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Bottom line: I really love the work and can't wait to see how the Doge scabbard fittings will look like. As well, my project does not aim at living history standards and can have some fantasy in the drawing design combined with more historically correct elements.

Jean,
I am working on your details as we speak. (Sent the Wife off to the movies with the kids so I can concentrate, Cool )
It has a similar Arch design but quite different as well.
I am sorta hooked on Gothic Architecture right now, but I promise not too many more of these designs. Too much of a good thing can be bad...
I actually came up with it thinking about your Doge scabbard and how the complex guard cuts in both sides of the core. The Arch covers the face of the core down past the first cut for the finger ring and the other side will need be open almost like a Ladys evening dress, cut thigh high down the side! Big Grin
I hope to have something done by the end of the week to show.
Sam
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 6:23 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam,
Interesting stuff here. From an artistic standpoint, these are very attractive. I don't know that I've seen historical designs quite like these, though. There were many fancy scabbards on effigies and brasses, though, with complex metal fittings. Gothic eye (http://www.gothiceye.com/) has a lot of pictures of effigies and brasses.

I think there is a market for more artistic things like what you've posted, but there should also be a market for more historical themes too.

Happy

ChadA

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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 9:14 am    Post subject: Correctness         Reply with quote

Chad,
Quote:
Posted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 6:23 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sam,
Interesting stuff here. From an artistic standpoint, these are very attractive. I don't know that I've seen historical designs quite like these, though

You are correct. I did get the idea from an effigy, but made it from my own design. I try to think about what could have been possible when making the designs and not get too caught up in the fact that I have not seen it before. The Locket and chape I feel could have been done in period, but are not based on something I saw. Allen had sent me some of his ideas and I just sat down and drew them freehand and they felt right, so I went with it.
I know I wont make many friends in this arena making it up as I go along, so there will be plenty of period correct designs
as well. Its really up to the person commisioning the work. If I have artistic freedom its very possible that it will end up being something "in the style of".
Thanks for the wise words Chad!!
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Correctness         Reply with quote

Sam Haverkamp wrote:
Chad,

I know I wont make many friends in this arena making it up as I go along, so there will be plenty of period correct designs
as well. Its really up to the person commissioning the work. If I have artistic freedom its very possible that it will end up being something "in the style of".
Thanks for the wise words Chad!!


I don't see it as being a problem as long as one keeps in one's mind if one is going the strict historical route of the " loose " historical route or the fantasy route.

There is no valid reason for anyone to impose a historically correct " FIAT " on someone else' s work or custom order by someone else, and even if some things are not to their taste that is perfectly fine, but I don't think you should think that you are not making friends here. Wink Big Grin Cool

Now, for a historical piece I guess you should do the needed research or be supplied the research by the customer to get it as close as possible to whatever historical accuracy criteria has been agreed to aim for. ( I say aim for because the more one knows the more one sees errors or sees gaps in our knowledge making some things educated guesses and not certainties ).

Being in " The style of " is just being real to today and making new and modern art using older style: One could compare it to Epic Film music that although original is very similar in style to Classical Orchestral music. Idea Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Thu 10 Jul, 2008 4:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Allen Foster




PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Correctness         Reply with quote

Quote:
There is no valid reason for anyone to impose a historically correct " FIAT " on someone else' s work or custom order by someone else, and even if some things are not to their taste that is perfectly fine, but I don't think you should think that you are not making friends here. Wink Big Grin Cool

Now, for a historical piece I guess you should do the needed research or be supplies the research by the customer to get it as close as possible to whatever historical accuracy criteria has been agreed to aim for. ( I say aim for because the more one knows the more one sees errors or sees gaps in our knowledge making some things educated guesses and not certainties ).


Very true Jean. To paint with a broad brush what is and what is not historically accurate based on the few surviving examples and images is to define the craft of scabbard making in very narrow territory. Art throughout history has only been limited by the medium, knowledge, imagination and talent of the craftsmen. I would venture to say that the knowledge; the meduim, imagination and the talent existed to make this piece in the period for which it attempts to up designed for. I would further venture to say that if a knight showed up at a gathering of like individuals, they would want to find out who made it and how they could get one.
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 4:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Correctness         Reply with quote

Allen Foster wrote:
Very true Jean. To paint with a broad brush what is and what is not historically accurate based on the few surviving examples and images is to define the craft of scabbard making in very narrow territory. Art throughout history has only been limited by the medium, knowledge, imagination and talent of the craftsmen. I would venture to say that the knowledge; the meduim, imagination and the talent existed to make this piece in the period for which it attempts to up designed for. I would further venture to say that if a knight showed up at a gathering of like individuals, they would want to find out who made it and how they could get one.


I guess it depends on your definition of a few. Happy According to one count, there are surviving 8,000 brasses in Great Britain (not all depict full bodies and not all are of knights, of course). It's pretty safe to say there are at least a 1,000 or so knights depicted on brasses in Great Britain, if not more. You can add effigies of the wealthiest Britons to that number (in all the big cathedrals and some parish churches), plus a smaller number of incised slabs. Then you get to the continent, where effigies seemed to have been more popular than brasses in some areas, but a number of brasses still survive (enough that a book was published just listing continental brasses), as well as numerous incised stone slabs and effigies.

Then there's a myriad of period art. Happy Plus the small number of surviving period scabbards.

So we can get some idea of what was popular if we know where to look. There is info out there on what was done historically, enough that those who want historically accurate scabbard fittings can find out what they might have looked like. Happy

Happy

ChadA

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Allen Foster




PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Correctness         Reply with quote

Chad,

Those are very impressive numbers and I defer to your superior knowledge of history on the subject. Being at a disadvantage mainly because of the short period of time I've been interested in the subject, I sometimes try to rely more on what sounds logical to me.

My only point is throughout history; art, architecture and sculpture have ridden the waves of change together. It can be seen from the Gothic traditions to the Baroque period to the Impressionists. If art & architecture had ridden the same wave during this period one could assume the metal art of the brass effigies had some similarities to the metal art of the scabbard fittings. Although I do understand that just because it's logical doesn't make it correct. Therefore, I stand corrected.
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Historical?         Reply with quote

Gang,
I knew this was going to come up and Im glad it did. I make metal because I can be creative! If it wasn't for that, I just plain wouldn't do it at all. Lord knows its not for money Laughing Out Loud
I would love to make everything I create make everyone happy, and be period correct and look just right, etc.
Obviously thats not possible.
Honestly I am still learning about what an ornate "period correct" scabbard detail "must" look like. I know there are many hundreds of plain or slightly engraved or slightly cut on versions out there folks can buy. I probably wont be making any of those.
I collect and reproduce Parade Armour made for Kings and Royalty and for some reason have grandiose visions of what I can accomplish in my own work. I guess some of that rubbed off on me...
Is it for everyone? Probably not, but that should be ok.
I have been thinking about starting a thread, asking folks to give me ideas and drawings for period correct scabbard furniture etc.
Ha, then if its not period correct it will be all our faults!
I still stand by my need to be creative and do new things. How boring would the world be if we could only replicate things
that had already been done. Worried I know its time to Duck Worried
If that was the case I would not have carved this design and tried to make metal out of it.
Sam
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 7:46 pm    Post subject: Freedom         Reply with quote

I want to make stuff like this!
AhhhaHhahahahah
Razz



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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Historical?         Reply with quote

Sam,
You only need to be historically correct if you want to sell fittings to people who want historically correct things. Don't worry about pleasing everyone every time because everyone has different goals, standards, budgets, desires, etc.

You're obviously welcome to make whatever you want. But when you come to a site subtitled "A Resource for Historic Arms and Armour Collectors" you shouldn't be surprised if some people want historically accurate things. Happy As I said, there's a market for both things. Decide what you want to do and run your business the way you want to.

You can search for historical scabbard info on our forums; lord knows I've posted plenty of pictures related to scabbards and their belts and fittings. Also, buy books on brasses; there are a number on my myArmoury reading list and I've reviewed them to let people know what I think about them. You can't expect others to do all your research for you. Happy There is also the rare and expensive Stothard book on effigies.

There's a market for replicating what's already been done. You just have to decide if you want to join that market. No one is forcing you to be accurate nor talking down to you if you decide not to be. Happy

Happy

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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: I know better....         Reply with quote

Chad,
All great points. I know how important being accurate is to the community. I don't mean to be callus to that fact. Truth is I really do want to make accurate pieces and am learning about whats acceptable and whats not. I did do quite a bit of research and concluded the design would not be improbable in period.
Thanks for the tips on the Effigies. I have been looking at quite a few of them lately. Even put one on a scabbard Happy
I was under the impression that not many scabbards survived other than whats been documented in drawings etc. (Im fully aware of all the Celtic examples) Is that not the case?
Thanks
Sam


Last edited by Sam Haverkamp on Thu 10 Jul, 2008 11:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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