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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Fri 04 Jul, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Jean Thibodeau's Doge         Reply with quote

Greetings,
Thanks to Russ at Tritonworks, I am fortunate enough to have the opportunity to provide the metal bits for this unusual sword.
The Doge, the Chief Magistrate for the city of Venice was a rich and powerful man. I have been thinking about this sword for quite some time, both from a design perspective and to solve the issue with this A-typical Guard.
Albion did a fantastic job on this sword, and to me it just screams Royalty.
I have been working with Gothic arches and scrollwork pretty much non stop in an effort to pull off the vision I have for this unique sword.
Jean has been great and has pretty much given me artistic freedom to do as I will. He has opted to go with bronzed copper with heavy Patina with slight polish to the high areas.
Here are the rough, and I do mean Rough, (sculpting comes easier than drawing for me) drawings of the Locket and Chape as I see them in my minds eye. The scrollwork will get more intricate as I carve this and there will be subtle, hopefully better differences in the finished design.
I tied in Jean's wolf as well as the Lion of St Mark, the true mark of the Household of the Doge.
What do you think Jean?
Everyone else please feel free to add comments, suggestions. I am on Vacation and will be focused on completing this work pretty quickly. So more updates and pictures to follow shortly...



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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Fri 04 Jul, 2008 4:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Yes, it looks like it's going to be amazing ! Sam is doing a great job including design elements I suggested I would like but I left him free to work out the details, and my suggestions where given exactly as suggestions and not as requirements.

From the work I have seen him do on his shield projects I can sort of imagine that the drawings are just an indication of how nicely these fittings will complements Russ's scabbard and the Doge itself. Big Grin Cool

Sort of takes the " pain " out of waiting for the scabbard to be finished and the sword delivered watching the progress of these designs in the near future. Wink Cool

Big thanks to Russ and Sam for making my scabbard the first, I think/hope, of many future design collaborations.

All sorts of other possibilities come to mind as Sam could do other " historical or fantasy " metal work for costume or weapons/armour/scabbard stuff: Shield bosses, trim to helms or armour, plaque belts etc ........ many things to enhance or decorated various custom projects.

Just imagining " possibilities ". Wink Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Fri 04 Jul, 2008 9:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Jean Thibodeau's Doge         Reply with quote

Sam Haverkamp wrote:
Greetings,
Thanks to Russ at Tritonworks, I am fortunate enough to have the opportunity to provide the metal bits for this unusual sword.
The Doge, the Chief Magistrate for the city of Venice was a rich and powerful man. I have been thinking about this sword for quite some time, both from a design perspective and to solve the issue with this A-typical Guard.


Oh, just a note: The Albion Doge's name is meant to mean a Venetian sword and yes it could be literally the Doge's sword or one of the many I assume he might own. The Doge could be owned by an important merchant or whatever kind of " nobility " was common in Venice ? ( Not sure what the social structure was in Medieval/Early Renaissance Venice: I assume there might be knights or men-at-arms but the socially important people might have been the rich merchants and various guilds of artisans as Venice seem to function as a " Kind " of limited democracy rather than a Kingdom or Dukedom ??? ).

So the Doge could also be in the hands of a foreign mercenary in the employ of the Venetian Government or the Doge himself, and this mercenary could be a rich mercenary captain. Wink Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!


Last edited by Jean Thibodeau on Sun 06 Jul, 2008 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Sun 06 Jul, 2008 11:51 am    Post subject: Doge         Reply with quote

Jean,
Thats very true. Sometimes being a very literal person makes me think in absolutes. The Doge could be any of those things. Albion mentions that the sword is based on swords of the republic of Venice and not a specific example.
It's fun to think about who and when and where. I think thats one of the most compelling parts of collecting, and I have no problem daydreaming I am designing ornate metalwork for a wealthy Duke or Knight for hire.
I know that sounds nutty, but it gets me through Eek!

Happy independence Day weekend to all the fine folks out there.
Sam
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Sun 06 Jul, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Doge         Reply with quote

Sam Haverkamp wrote:
Jean,
Thats very true. Sometimes being a very literal person makes me think in absolutes. The Doge could be any of those things. Albion mentions that the sword is based on swords of the republic of Venice and not a specific example.
It's fun to think about who and when and where. I think thats one of the most compelling parts of collecting, and I have no problem daydreaming I am designing ornate metalwork for a wealthy Duke or Knight for hire.
I know that sounds nutty, but it gets me through Eek!

Happy independence Day weekend to all the fine folks out there.
Sam


Works in the other direction also as I can daydream that I'm a rich and powerful knight or mercenary captain and a patron of the arts commissioning arms and armour from artists that I like who's work I appreciate. Wink Cool

And yes, you did seem to take the name Doge just a touch literally. Laughing Out Loud Cool So I sort of brought up the alternatives. Big Grin

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Jul, 2008 10:34 am    Post subject: Rough draft         Reply with quote

I have an update, but not yet complete version of Jean's details. There are some patina and various finish issues I am still working on, so try to ignore the small flaws. I hope to get some pictures with the completed scabbard once I get my hands on the core.
This is not based on a specific example, but based on the feel of Venetian Art of the period. I will label it as Art as not to offend any of my fellow forumites. I realize this is the second "Arch" inspired detail I have done, dont worry Its the last...
Anyways, feel free to comment, throw poop at me, give suggestions....
Thanks
Sam



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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 17 Jul, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Well, no " POO THROWING " from the owner of the Doge. Razz Laughing Out Loud Cool

I know that you explained some of the technology used by you when making your shields ( Low relief sculpture reproductions of period shields ), but maybe you can recap the process of making the chape and throat and the applied decorations.

The results look great and the wolf on the chape looks very lifelike and cool. Big Grin

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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Jul, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Jean,
Thanks Happy
These custom works are really different than the Armour Reproductions. For those, I have to do some hand sculpting on them but they are basically exact reproductions of period peices, much like a Museum Copy.

For the custom work I draw (I use that term loosely) the design, and then hand cut and engrave the whole detail in wax much like everything else that is cast these days. My process is a little different, but in the end you end up with a solid metal object that is thin enough to be used for these type of details.
It really is alot of fun doing the custom work.
Sam
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Jul, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Gang,
Sorry for the poo reference. Just kidding. Im in a strange mood today, hope that didnt offend anyone Blush
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J. D. Carter




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PostPosted: Thu 17 Jul, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Mr. Thibodeau I would be green with envy just over the Doge alone. Coupled with workmanship like whats displayed in the pictures posted so far Grats is all I can think of. You are going to have quite a combo when it's finished. Look forward to seeing some pictures of sword & scabbard together when it happens.
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Thu 17 Jul, 2008 6:37 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam Haverkamp wrote:
Gang,
Sorry for the poo reference. Just kidding. Im in a strange mood today, hope that didnt offend anyone Blush


Can't speak for anybody else but the " POO " joke was funny to me. Big Grin Cool

Don't worry about it if you do cross the line a moderator will let you know.

I think swearing, politics, religion and completely off topic stuff is what are a no no as well as lack of respect for other posters and maybe some other things. In case of doubt ask a moderator or just read the rules of conduct:
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Sat 19 Jul, 2008 11:26 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Quote:
Mr. Thibodeau I would be green with envy just over the Doge alone. Coupled with workmanship like whats displayed in the pictures posted so far Grats is all I can think of. You are going to have quite a combo when it's finished. Look forward to seeing some pictures of sword & scabbard together when it happens.


Thanks JD. I am excited to see this glorious sword in the flesh as well.
Being the cutler does not always mean I get to see or hold all of the swords I am working on details for.
I will have to settle for pictures, Doh!
Im sure Jean will take some pictures when his rig is all done and safe at home in his collection. Happy

I know these details are different and not your everyday fair. I am having fun doing them and I hope it all comes together and makes sense when its done. As long as Jean is Happy, I am Happy.
Sam
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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Sat 19 Jul, 2008 4:21 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam Haverkamp wrote:
[
Im sure Jean will take some pictures when his rig is all done and safe at home in his collection. Happy

I know these details are different and not your everyday fair. I am having fun doing them and I hope it all comes together and makes sense when its done. As long as Jean is Happy, I am Happy.
Sam


Oh, at the very least I'll get Russ to take some pics of the assembled scabbard and the Doge in and out of the scabbard.

Well, so far I'm happy. Big Grin Cool

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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 5:45 pm    Post subject: Progress         Reply with quote

Jean and Russ,
I am putting these puppies in a box this week. I learned some key processes moving forward, Like if you heat copper up too much past 2000 degrees C it will melt and there goes a weeks work.....
Jean and Russ have been great through the delays and I appreciate their candor. Its been a tough summer full of personal and proffesional challenges, and I for one am glad its over.

I know I said I was stearing away from the gothic but Im not so sure I can. I have some crazy ideas for some scabbard details moving forward.

Thanks for any feedback, comments...



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Jean Thibodeau




PostPosted: Tue 16 Sep, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Progress         Reply with quote

Sam Haverkamp wrote:
Jean and Russ,
I am putting these puppies in a box this week. I learned some key processes moving forward, Like if you heat copper up too much past 2000 degrees C it will melt and there goes a weeks work.....
Jean and Russ have been great through the delays and I appreciate their candor. Its been a tough summer full of personal and proffesional challenges, and I for one am glad its over.

I know I said I was stearing away from the gothic but Im not so sure I can. I have some crazy ideas for some scabbard details moving forward.

Thanks for any feedback, comments...


WOW, that's drop dead gorgeous: The wait was more than worth it, I can't tell you how much I'm impressed with the work. Big Grin Cool

You can easily give up your freedom. You have to fight hard to get it back!
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Jeremiah Swanger




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PostPosted: Wed 17 Sep, 2008 2:09 am    Post subject: Re: Progress         Reply with quote

Sam Haverkamp wrote:
Jean and Russ,

I know I said I was stearing away from the gothic but Im not so sure I can. I have some crazy ideas for some scabbard details moving forward.

Thanks for any feedback, comments...



As a man who possesses a taste for all things Gothic, I really do believe this set is absolutely STUNNING!!!!!

One of my life's goals is to one day (hopefully within a few years) commission a custom late-15th C. German Longsword, probably following closely along the lines of Oakeshott's type XVIIIb. I'm looking at a gentleman in Poland, one in Germany, and one in Sweden for such a commission.

I wasn't sure who to turn to for the scabbard fittings-- until now!

Again, I must say, this is truly beautiful work!

"Rhaegar fought nobly.
Rhaegar fought valiantly.
Rhaegar fought honorably.
And Rhaegar died."

- G.R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire
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Russ Ellis
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PostPosted: Wed 17 Sep, 2008 7:00 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Looks great Sam! As soon as those are in hand we are going to try to turn Jean's scabbard (and the other one) around lickety split. I'll of course be posting pictures of the finished products and the two Doges.
TRITONWORKS Custom Scabbards
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Thu 18 Sep, 2008 6:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks Russ, they are going out tomorrow.

Thanks Jean! This was something really different from what I have been working on so far. I am always trying to push my skill level with each project. You were great to work with and I look forward to some more interesting projects in the future.

Jeremiah,
I would be honored to work on your scabbard someday. I really appreciate the nice comments, as I spent a retarded amount of time and effort on these.


I always appreciate the fine works I see posted from the top makers and cutlers on the site. I know how much time and skill (and a bit of magic pixie dust) it takes to pull off the work.

Lately, I am just blown away at the works by known masters and even the new kids on the block as well. It almost feels like its some kind of creative renaissance happening in the arms and armour community.


Sam
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Sam Haverkamp
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Sep, 2008 11:47 pm    Post subject: Photo Opp         Reply with quote

Jean,
Russ probably has these now, and is working on your scabbard. I took this picture before sending them on thier way.
I need to set up a better photo station, at least these are on a background (The green grass is kind of soothing though). As challenging as it was finishing these I sure learned alot. Thanks so much for the opportunity to work on this with you.

Sam



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Matthew Grzybowski
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PostPosted: Mon 29 Sep, 2008 4:31 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Sam -

Excellent work! Thanks very much for sharing. I can't wait to see the finished scabbard.

Best,

Matt

OlliN Sword Design
Handmade collectible arms, custom swords, and sculpture
www.ollinsworddesign.com
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