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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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PostPosted: Fri 04 Jul, 2008 12:21 am    Post subject: New Riveted Maille at Historic Enterprises, Inc.         Reply with quote

Our order of Voiders, Skirts and Shirts of Flat Ring Wedge-riveted Maille has arrived!

It looks great and we sell it clean and free of the usual "gunk" that plagues most retail mail.

It's really light too-- only 13-1/2 pounds for a 48" haubergeon, 5 pounds for a pair of voiders and 4-1/2 pound for a skirt. Wow!!

Check it out......(and make your order today- while supplies and our special prices last!)

http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m...t&c=25



 Attachment: 63.48 KB
voiders-x2-front-DSCN6018XX.jpg


Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
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Last edited by Jeffrey Hedgecock on Mon 07 Jul, 2008 11:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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Chase S-R




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Jul, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

could we get a close up picture of the mail? Happy and are the half sleeves loose or fitted like a t-shirt
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Alessandro Fantucci




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PostPosted: Fri 04 Jul, 2008 11:41 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Hi Happy

This type of ring is ok for XV cent....good product!!

For my period, XIV cent, i need round section rings...like this



...but I like brunite and with "grano d'orzo" fixage like the link of Jeffrey Hedgecock's link

by by
Razz

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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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Location: Ramona CA USA
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PostPosted: Sat 05 Jul, 2008 12:31 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I think you're saying that you need round section wire rings, but with wedge rivets. So far, I know of no one who makes this. There is round wire with round rivets, or flat rings with either round or wedge rivets. And all of the round wire maille has rings with too large diameter, usually around 10mm, which is too big. It should be more like 7mm.

I've been trying to get my manufacturer to make 7mm round wire ring maille with wedge rivets, but he hasn't seen the historical value in it yet. I think it's because it's really difficult to make. I'm going to keep trying though.

That said, our 9mm flat ring wedge riveted is really nice stuff. Very cleanly constructed, and I always tumble it until it's very clean and almost bright.

There is a closeup of our maille on our website. Please go there to see. Follow the link above.

The sleeves on our shirts are somewhat close fitting, but not like a tshirt. Loose enough, but not too loose. Think- the Italian fashion, of wearing the half sleeved shirt under the pauldrons/spaudlers, but over the vambraces. The correct fit...just right. Of course that depends on your arms, but our sizes are proportional to body type based on chest circumference.

Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
WorldJoust Tournaments™
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M. Eversberg II




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PostPosted: Sat 05 Jul, 2008 7:02 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Are these tailored or of tube construction?

M.

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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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PostPosted: Sat 05 Jul, 2008 3:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

These are commercially produced haubergeons, and as far as I know there are no commercially produced "tailored" shirts of any type available from anyone. Considering the labor intensive nature of riveted maille, it's quite impractical to produce tailored shirts in any volume save for one-off custom pieces. Ours are not "custom" at all, but are thoughtfully designed and somewhat easily customized by a knowledgeable end user. Alternatively a purchaser could contract with a custom craftsman to "personalize" a shirt to a particular body type.

Our shirts, however, do minimize or even eliminate the extra bulk through the sleeve and shoulder area, provided the correct chest circumference is selected by the purchaser.

If it were practical, we would certainly love to offer tailored garments, but given the nature of the product and the cost of labor in this country, it's beyond our and, more importantly, our customers' means currently.

If you have any practicable suggestions though, I'm happy to hear them. Big Grin

Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
WorldJoust Tournaments™
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M. Eversberg II




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PostPosted: Sun 06 Jul, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Point taken.

M.

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Ed Toton




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PostPosted: Sun 06 Jul, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Any plans on offering them with tapered sleeves? I understand the limitations in complex tailoring around the back, shoulders, hips, etc. But it seems that simple tapering of the sleeves to reduce that "wings of mail" sort of look wouldn't be as hard to accomplish. I'm surprised no one seems to be doing this.
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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PostPosted: Sun 06 Jul, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

It's really unnecessary and undesirable to taper the sleeves on a half sleeve or "elbow length sleeve" shirt, as it's often the expectation that the shirt will be worn with the sleeves over the vambraces. To taper them would not allow this.

It is, however, desirable to taper long or "full" sleeves, with the expectation that the sleeves will go under plate armour, or be worn with an aketon or other padded defense underneath the maille, so extra bulk is definitely unwanted.

Our long sleeve shirts, when we get them in, have tapered sleeves. We just don't happen to have any at the moment. The market for them is significantly smaller for them, so we don't get them in as often, though we hope to get a new order going in the fall. Please keep in mind that even though these are production items, they're still handmade, and it takes skilled craftsmen a relatively long time to make these. They're quite labor intensive, no matter how many techniques are created for speeding up the work. Handwork takes time.

We're really happy with the response and considered questions re. our products. Sales are pretty good and if we see more product move it will allow us to keep better stock, keep prices low and pass on those good things to our loyal customers. Thanks to all you folks!

Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
WorldJoust Tournaments™
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Douglas S





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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 10:50 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeff, I beleive there would be some interest in alternate-row mail, appropriate to the Viking age. Please consider that.
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C. Gadda





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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 11:11 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Douglas S wrote:
Jeff, I beleive there would be some interest in alternate-row mail, appropriate to the Viking age. Please consider that.


I would be very interested in this, as well.

Also, I had hoped to see loose rings with wedge rivets, but I noticed those were not restocked. I take it that product has been discontinued?

Really, what I would love to see are some Viking/Migration era loose rings with round, domed headed rivets in the 6mm or 1/4" I.D. range, which would be plausibly close to the Gjermundbu and Vimose finds. Cooresponding solid rings would be nice, too, but I can make these or get them from other sources (RingLord, certain hardware suppliers, etc.) The only place that stocks this sort of ring is in the U.K. and shipping would be obnoxious. It would be really, really nice if a U.S. supplier could, well, supply this!

I am certainly interested, and I think there is more interest than realized. Stephen Sheldon (of Forth Armoury) could never keep his rings in stock much due to the demand. And now that he closed up shop there aren't any suppliers that I'm aware of, so you'd pretty much own the market here in the U.S. Just a thought.
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jul, 2008 11:40 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

The loose rings have not been discontinued, I just had to make the shirts, skirt and voiders the priority. Actually I had an order in for the voiders and skirts which took longer for the manufacturer to produce than expected, -and- a separate order for shirts, which they completed earlier than expected. This put us in a bind with a bill twice as big as we'd allowed for, so I asked the mfr to split the order, hence we got most of the voiders and skirts, and some of the shirts. The rings got sort of lost in the shuffle, as they were needed as well, but second in priority.

We plan to have rings, hopefully with the second shipment in 3-5 weeks. We're really sorry for the delay.

It just so happens that I received 1 set of voiders and a standard in 6mm round section, round riveted rings, alternating with solid rings. These cleaned up really nice in my tumbler and look quite spiffing. Price is slightly higher than the 9mm 18ga, but the material is slightly heavier, due to the density of the weave. It moves wonderfully and looks the bomb though. I just wonder what a shirt would weigh. voiders are about 15% heavier than 9mm, so I expect a shirt would be about the same, maybe 14-1/2 to 15 pounds for our medium?

Because the 6mm is so labor intensive, I think it will never be produced with all riveted rings. Is the round section, round rivet, alternating with solid rings acceptable for you? If so, I can inquire about pricing on shirts and other items. Please tell me also what specs on the shirts, etc you would need.

I'll post a picture of the 6mm weave tomorrow.

The suggestions are great, guys. Thanks for your interest. We're always open to opinions, comments and your ideas!

Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
WorldJoust Tournaments™
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C. Gadda





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PostPosted: Fri 11 Jul, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jeffrey Hedgecock wrote:
The loose rings have not been discontinued, I just had to make the shirts, skirt and voiders the priority. Actually I had an order in for the voiders and skirts which took longer for the manufacturer to produce than expected, -and- a separate order for shirts, which they completed earlier than expected. This put us in a bind with a bill twice as big as we'd allowed for, so I asked the mfr to split the order, hence we got most of the voiders and skirts, and some of the shirts. The rings got sort of lost in the shuffle, as they were needed as well, but second in priority.

We plan to have rings, hopefully with the second shipment in 3-5 weeks. We're really sorry for the delay.

It just so happens that I received 1 set of voiders and a standard in 6mm round section, round riveted rings, alternating with solid rings. These cleaned up really nice in my tumbler and look quite spiffing. Price is slightly higher than the 9mm 18ga, but the material is slightly heavier, due to the density of the weave. It moves wonderfully and looks the bomb though. I just wonder what a shirt would weigh. voiders are about 15% heavier than 9mm, so I expect a shirt would be about the same, maybe 14-1/2 to 15 pounds for our medium?

Because the 6mm is so labor intensive, I think it will never be produced with all riveted rings. Is the round section, round rivet, alternating with solid rings acceptable for you? If so, I can inquire about pricing on shirts and other items. Please tell me also what specs on the shirts, etc you would need.

I'll post a picture of the 6mm weave tomorrow.

The suggestions are great, guys. Thanks for your interest. We're always open to opinions, comments and your ideas!


Thanks for the update about the loose rings!

As for the 6mm, round section round rivet alternating with solid is, to the best of my knowledge, extremely close to what was used in the Viking Age and somewhat earlier. So, yes, I believe that is precisely what I'm looking for.

However, I am more interested in doing at least some of the work myself, mostly because I'll be tailoring the shirt in all likelihood. What I would really want is a bunch of loose rings with rivets, along with a some complete voiders (I think - those are basically just rectangles of maille, right?). Here's my thought process - dumb or brilliant I'm not sure: I'd stich together voiders to make the bulk of the shirt. But areas that require either tailoring or rings of a different thickness (the chest would be done with 16ga. rings that I punch myself - I believe evidence exists for rings of greater thickness over more vulnerable areas) To my limited intellect this gives me the best of both worlds - I can save an ENORMOUS amount of effort by using pre made sections for most of the shirt, but still customize it in a way that lends even greater accuracy. Does this make sense?

I await the inevitable darts of criticism, pointing out the blockheaded errors I have no doubt made in my grand plan.
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Douglas S





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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jul, 2008 10:33 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Since Jeff has already gone over to the Dark Age side with the clothing, it would be natural to see other Dark Age gear as well. Happy
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jul, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Ha! Good one!

Actually my wife Gwen Nowrick who is our clothing designer and developer worked long and hard in creating her (and believe me folks, it's all her doing, not mine) Dark Age clothing line. She talked at length with Regia Anglorum both here and in the UK before proceeding, making sure each clothing item and fabric type followed RA standards. I had nothing to do with it, other than to say, "Oooo, those fabrics look really awesome, and they feel nice too"... :-) I won't take any credit for it.

I did help coordinating the photo sessions with the photographer, but that was a very small thing.

I am, however, happy to lend a hand in filling out our offerings with other Dark Age products, and hopefully you kind people here will help. I'm really not that familiar with early riveted maille or the other myriad of accessories you might want, so if you have specific products you'd like to see us develop, please email me directly!

I'd prefer to keep our product development private, so please DON'T post your ideas publicly, email me at jeffrey@historicenterprises.com

Thanks! I look forward to hearing from you!

Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
WorldJoust Tournaments™
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Jeffrey Hedgecock
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PostPosted: Sat 19 Jul, 2008 9:57 am    Post subject: Voiders & Skirt Special, Save $35 till Monday noon only!         Reply with quote

Until Monday at 12 noon pacific time, we're offering a special price when you purchase both Voiders and Maille skirt together.

Save $35 off the cost of the pieces individually.

These are 9mm ID flat ring, wedge riveted maille. Fully cleaned, burnished and ready to use. Free of the usual oil, blackening and other stuff that make production maille so inconvenient.

Act now while the special lasts!

http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart.php?m...3&c=25

Cheers,

Jeffrey Hedgecock
Historic Enterprises, Inc.
WorldJoust Tournaments™
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