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Does sharpening it effect the value and how
Sharpening DECREASES value
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Sharpening INCREASES value If done by origional creator (Jody Samson)
38%
 38%  [ 7 ]
Sharpening DOES NOT EFFECT the value either way, if its done at the company
61%
 61%  [ 11 ]
Total Votes : 18

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Johnathan F





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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 1:10 pm    Post subject: Having A collectable Sword Sharpened Effects value? Albion         Reply with quote

I have a question regarding the sharpening of a collectable sword by the company, and how its value or long term value is affected.
specifically The Conan atlantean sword being sharpened by albion.
Now i have heard in a review that ...
"It should be left in the unsharpened state since it is viewed primarily as a collectable and having it sharpened will only decrease its long term value."

But one thing that was not taken into account was that Jody Samson, the original creator and designer of the Conan swords will be sharpening them. wouldn't this increase the value if anything? Mike Sigman of the company says so but i've not heard many opinions on this subject.

So my question is that if Jody Samson sharpens the blade of the Conan sword personally would this not increase the value? Or would it decrease its value as its not "mint".

I am eager to hear any opinions thanks Happy

John


Last edited by Johnathan F on Fri 06 Jun, 2008 1:53 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Mike Arledge




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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I am not a collector, but it has been my experience that your piece is worth only what someone wants to pay. Simple answer, if you have a buyer who wants a sharpened one, its worth more, if your buyers want unsharpened pieces, then it would be worth less to them.
Mike J Arledge

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Gabriel Lebec
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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Having A collectable Sword Sharpened Effects value? (Alb         Reply with quote

IMHO if Jody Samson did it the value would not decrease. The argument being that yes, it's no longer a mint collectable, but it was altered by the designer and maker personally.

I don't think it would increase though. I think that's pushing what one could reasonably expect from a basic sharpening job.

"The most beautiful experience we can have is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion that stands at the cradle of true art and true science." - Albert Einstein
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Johnathan F





Joined: 21 May 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 2:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Having A collectable Sword Sharpened Effects value? (Alb         Reply with quote

Gabriel Lebec wrote:
IMHO if Jody Samson did it the value would not decrease. The argument being that yes, it's no longer a mint collectable, but it was altered by the designer and maker personally.

I don't think it would increase though. I think that's pushing what one could reasonably expect from a basic sharpening job.


Those are some good points. However i would have thought any "hands-on" from the swords creator might increase the value some. At least compared to a normal albion employee doing it. Do you think in the case that it is sharpened by someone else at albion this might decrease the price? as jody does not do them all.
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D. Nogueira




Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

If I should want to buy that sword, as a collector, and I had to choose between a mint one, and a sharpened one at the same price... I would choose to buy the mint one. Therefore, in my oppinion, sharpening decreases value.

The same criteria I would use on buying collectible bayonets or collectible military knives, for instance.

But the fact is simpler than that because... if you can convince anyone to pay more for your sharpened sword... the value had been increased rather than decreased... despite what I or others might think.
If you achieve to sell it as a "Unique and rare factory sharpened version" at twice the price... congratulations... :P

But besides all this, my question is:
Why to sharpen a Conan Atlantean sword in the first place?
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Chad Arnow
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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 3:08 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Technically, it's a Filmswords sword, not an Albion one. Happy

The opinion you quoted from our review in one person's opinion. But let me say this: If you have it sharpened, the temptation will be to cut with it. Why have it sharpened otherwise? Happy Cutting with it will ultimately cause some wear and tear, even if it's minor. That will affect its value, even if touched up/resharpened later.

These are extremely limited edition swords with a high price tag. Pretty soon, you won't be able to replace it if it gets damaged.

If you bought it for investment purposes or collectibility, don't have it sharpened. But as they said on Antiques Roadshow last night, never buy something as investment. Buy what you like. Happy

It's your sword. If you want to cut with it, you run the risk of decreasing its value at best or damaging it badly at worst. As it's irreplaceable, you have to decide if that's a risk you want to run.

Happy

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Johnathan F





Joined: 21 May 2008

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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 3:28 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Chad Arnow wrote:
Technically, it's a Filmswords sword, not an Albion one. Happy

The opinion you quoted from our review in one person's opinion. But let me say this: If you have it sharpened, the temptation will be to cut with it. Why have it sharpened otherwise? Happy Cutting with it will ultimately cause some wear and tear, even if it's minor. That will affect its value, even if touched up/resharpened later.

These are extremely limited edition swords with a high price tag. Pretty soon, you won't be able to replace it if it gets damaged.

If you bought it for investment purposes or collectibility, don't have it sharpened. But as they said on Antiques Roadshow last night, never buy something as investment. Buy what you like. Happy

It's your sword. If you want to cut with it, you run the risk of decreasing its value at best or damaging it badly at worst. As it's irreplaceable, you have to decide if that's a risk you want to run.


Thank you Chad for your input. Its funny because as i was browsing the site earlier today and saw posts from you on like 2003 ebay finds about the filmswords i was thinking of pm'ing you thinking you must have some wisdom on the subject, and i wasnt wrong.

Obviously i wont be cutting diddly with it. For some reason i am not corrupted or driven by these temptations like say..my dad is when he first held one. (he almost tried to chop the banister in half Eek! ) This is probably because i worked hard and long giving up months and months of pay. However i see what you mean about it accidently being nicked or over time being slowly worne away more easily. this is true. The only reason i wanted to get it sharpened is because for some reason having a real sharpened sword gives you a strange feeling of power and you realise this is no movie or acting you really do have the sword.

Yes it may not make sence to some of you but this is just how i feel. However i do feel that if someone other than Jody sharpens it that it would not be worth it personally to me it just adds to the feeling to have the master Jody do the job. And Mike sigman believed it may increase value if he sharpens it but i think there is no garentee of him doing so as he cant possibly do them all. The only way of knowing is if you recieve the delightful paper he sends with each one he sharpens saying CAUTION EXTREMELY SHARP....SHARPENED BY JODY SAMSON. it says something like that. Either way i hope to hear more comments from people on this matter as i am open to all opinions. Though my mind is almost made up. if it means anything i heard around 75% of the people buy it sharpened. (conan filmswords)
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Johnathan F





Joined: 21 May 2008

Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 3:32 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

D. Nogueira wrote:
If I should want to buy that sword, as a collector, and I had to choose between a mint one, and a sharpened one at the same price... I would choose to buy the mint one. Therefore, in my oppinion, sharpening decreases value.

The same criteria I would use on buying collectible bayonets or collectible military knives, for instance.

But the fact is simpler than that because... if you can convince anyone to pay more for your sharpened sword... the value had been increased rather than decreased... despite what I or others might think.
If you achieve to sell it as a "Unique and rare factory sharpened version" at twice the price... congratulations... :P

But besides all this, my question is:
Why to sharpen a Conan Atlantean sword in the first place?



Thanks for the feedback. Well first off i would like to point out it costs 25 dollars extra to have it sharpened by them. Nextly the reasons for me wanting it sharpened are in my post responce to chad above.


Now i also was wondering at the definition of the word mint. as i thought it could just mean the condition it leaves the company in be it sharpened or not. or does it mean the blade has not been altered within or outside the company
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Stu C




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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I'm not sure that worrying too much about the resale value of a modern production sword is necessarily a good idea! My personal observation from watching the classifieds is that they don't tend to increase in value (beyond inflation), and are most likely to head slowly south. The total market for Conan swords (or any other swords) is unlikely to expand massively given the US is heading into a recession.

These swords already retail at quite a high price (because of the Albion/Marto rights problem, I believe), and I'm just not sure there is that much room for the price to go upwards because it was sharpened by Jody Sampson.

Stu
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J Anstey





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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 6:53 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

I have the same paper - Caution Extremely Sharp - sharpened by Jody Sampson - very cool!

I think it a Filmsword represents the sword used by the character in the film, not the prop used in the film. I ordered mine sharp. THe first thing my friends say when they see it apart from Wow - that's a great big boys toy! is, "is it sharp"

So it will always be sharp for me, as long as it is done by the maker.

Cheers

Jason
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Jean Thibodeau




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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Stu C wrote:
I'm not sure that worrying too much about the resale value of a modern production sword is necessarily a good idea! My personal observation from watching the classifieds is that they don't tend to increase in value (beyond inflation), and are most likely to head slowly south.


I only buy because I like something any resale value greater than what I paid for it would just be a nice bonus and it is nice if it at least keeps to being close to it's initial cost.

I also noticed really nice swords not selling very fast in the classifieds but sometimes it's just a question of potential buyers being tapped out at that specific moment or having committed all their funds to other purchases.

If it's a desirable sword it should sell at somewhere between 75% to 80% of the price of a new one if it's a production model still being made: Why pay more for a used sword you could order directly from the maker ?

Well, I can think of exceptions: If it's in high demand or custom or the waiting time for a new one is calculated in "geological time ". Eek!

People wanting to maximize the price they sell one of their swords should be patient because being in a rush to sell often means reducing the asking price more than one should I think. ( But then I have never sold anything. Wink Razz Cool ).

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D. Nogueira




Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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PostPosted: Tue 27 May, 2008 9:15 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Johnathan F wrote:

Now i also was wondering at the definition of the word mint. as i thought it could just mean the condition it leaves the company in be it sharpened or not. or does it mean the blade has not been altered within or outside the company


Hi Johnathan:

Well... "Mint" condition is like an ideal state, and it can be argued that in fact sometimes it may be impossible to reach!

However, the adjective mint is commonly used to describe the condition of an item that it is "as new" or "untouched".
I understand (my personal oppinion) that this refers ro the condition when the item was originally finished.
(I have a beautiful WWII M1Garand, refinished at it's factory in 1951... but by no means it regained "mint" condition because of this)

When I mentioned that a sharpened Conan sword would loose it's "mint" condition... I assumed (And I may have been totally wrong!!! Correct me please if so) that these swords were originally sold unsharpened, given their status as collectible film replica swords.

If that's the case... sharpening will be a modification, causing the item to loose it's original status.
The same way a sharpened WWII "SS" dagger would loose it for instance, no matter how well the sharpening was made.
This would not "ruin" strictly speaking such dagger at all! But it would make it a lot less desirable to the eyes of the collectors.
One big problem about sharpening and collectibles, is that sharpening can be used to "hide" a severely damaged blade, or a previously broken tip, for instance. It may be difficult to say how much material was removed during a sharpening.

On the other hand... if it was natural to see new Conan swords coming out of the factory both sharpened and unsharpened... then there would be no problem, and I could accept both as "mint" or "untouched".
Just my humble oppinion, of course.

Enjoy your sword!
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Russ Thomas
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PostPosted: Wed 28 May, 2008 8:24 am    Post subject:         Reply with quote

My own opinion would be that mint is mint, regardless of who sharpened it ! So personally I wouldn't touch it.

Regards,

Russ

Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero !


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Johnathan F





Joined: 21 May 2008

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PostPosted: Wed 28 May, 2008 1:59 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Jean Thibodeau wrote:
Stu C wrote:
I'm not sure that worrying too much about the resale value of a modern production sword is necessarily a good idea! My personal observation from watching the classifieds is that they don't tend to increase in value (beyond inflation), and are most likely to head slowly south.


I only buy because I like something any resale value greater than what I paid for it would just be a nice bonus and it is nice if it at least keeps to being close to it's initial cost.

I also noticed really nice swords not selling very fast in the classifieds but sometimes it's just a question of potential buyers being tapped out at that specific moment or having committed all their funds to other purchases.

If it's a desirable sword it should sell at somewhere between 75% to 80% of the price of a new one if it's a production model still being made: Why pay more for a used sword you could order directly from the maker ?

Well, I can think of exceptions: If it's in high demand or custom or the waiting time for a new one is calculated in "geological time ". Eek!

People wanting to maximize the price they sell one of their swords should be patient because being in a rush to sell often means reducing the asking price more than one should I think. ( But then I have never sold anything. Wink Razz Cool ).




Thanks for your great opinion, now that you mention it the sword is actually almost out of production and they will not be making any more soon. there will probably be less than 500 in existence of this conan atlantean.
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Johnathan F





Joined: 21 May 2008

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PostPosted: Wed 28 May, 2008 2:06 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

D. Nogueira wrote:
Johnathan F wrote:

Now i also was wondering at the definition of the word mint. as i thought it could just mean the condition it leaves the company in be it sharpened or not. or does it mean the blade has not been altered within or outside the company


Hi Johnathan:

Well... "Mint" condition is like an ideal state, and it can be argued that in fact sometimes it may be impossible to reach!

However, the adjective mint is commonly used to describe the condition of an item that it is "as new" or "untouched".
I understand (my personal oppinion) that this refers ro the condition when the item was originally finished.
(I have a beautiful WWII M1Garand, refinished at it's factory in 1951... but by no means it regained "mint" condition because of this)

When I mentioned that a sharpened Conan sword would loose it's "mint" condition... I assumed (And I may have been totally wrong!!! Correct me please if so) that these swords were originally sold unsharpened, given their status as collectible film replica swords.

If that's the case... sharpening will be a modification, causing the item to loose it's original status.
The same way a sharpened WWII "SS" dagger would loose it for instance, no matter how well the sharpening was made.
This would not "ruin" strictly speaking such dagger at all! But it would make it a lot less desirable to the eyes of the collectors.
One big problem about sharpening and collectibles, is that sharpening can be used to "hide" a severely damaged blade, or a previously broken tip, for instance. It may be difficult to say how much material was removed during a sharpening.

On the other hand... if it was natural to see new Conan swords coming out of the factory both sharpened and unsharpened... then there would be no problem, and I could accept both as "mint" or "untouched".
Just my humble oppinion, of course.

Enjoy your sword!




Thank you for the great responce.

Actually you made a good point as FILMSWORDS does sell some swords already sharpened like their old highlander swords and the new Dicerner sword. However the Conan Sword is sold unsarpened as default and you must pay 25$ extra to have it sharpened.

Personaly i only found this desirable if Jody did it but i dont think he does anymore. Also i have been told by Mike Sigman of filmswords that somewhere around 75% of the people that buy the sword pay the extra $25 for it to be sharpened.


Last edited by Johnathan F on Wed 28 May, 2008 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Johnathan F





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PostPosted: Wed 28 May, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

J Anstey wrote:
I have the same paper - Caution Extremely Sharp - sharpened by Jody Sampson - very cool!

I think it a Filmsword represents the sword used by the character in the film, not the prop used in the film. I ordered mine sharp. THe first thing my friends say when they see it apart from Wow - that's a great big boys toy! is, "is it sharp"

So it will always be sharp for me, as long as it is done by the maker.

Cheers

Jason


Hey J

Thanks for that comment. i did recieve one of my atlanteans a little while ago and i actually did not have that paper on it though i had always read that it was there from the testimonials. This lead me to think that he did not sharpen mine and rather someone else at the company did. Mike Sigman said he does sharpen them but maybe he stoped do to the rush in orders.

I was reading another thread a little while ago. I believe it was from last month, and you were in it along with Chris talking of defects or problems in some of the newer atlanteans. in fact i might have emailed or pmed you on the subject as mine has those flaws as well.

I feel that it is also important to point out to people that the prop in the movie was actually SHARPENED. Yes its true i found out that even though it was made of stainless steel it was infact sharpened along with all the other swords in the movie. This is how the directer john Milius wanted it to be. probably so that the actors would act and feel like they are really carrying weapons imo.
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Johnathan F





Joined: 21 May 2008

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PostPosted: Wed 28 May, 2008 3:03 pm    Post subject:         Reply with quote

Thanks for all the help and support so far guys.

I am still open to all other comments and opinions people
Happy

I find it suprising not one person thought sharpening decreases value (on the polls) not quite consistent with the thread but o well. Confused
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